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December 11, 2018, 11:59:06 PM
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Military flight availability
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Holding Pattern
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,293
Unit: Worry

« on: February 23, 2018, 12:55:26 PM »

I'm in a circumstance where I have several classes I'd like to get out of the way so that I can be a resource for my squadron (specifically, FEMA Train the Trainer classes so I can start teaching classes for CAP on my side of the state.) The problem is that I live on the opposite side of the state from which training regularly occurs. That being said, there is an air base on either side of the state, one conveniently close by, the other by where all the training happens on the other side of the state.

While I'm aware of the fickle nature of "space available" and the schedules may not always work, I'd like to explore the option, especially since some of those courses are in fact taught at the base across the state.

With this in mind:

1. Are classes like this an eligible reason to try to use military flights?

2. What is the process to explore the availability of military flights?
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MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,938
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2018, 01:17:56 PM »

1. Find out if there are flights between the two bases

2. Talk to your leadership about getting a Military Support Authorization to fly Space A to and from. (As a CAP member, you  will have the lowest priority)

3. If there are no flights back, be prepared to travel commercial

It would be easier to find another person to travel with, you can't be the only person in your area who needs the training. Maybe the local  or County Emergency services Agency has people going.   
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,659

« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2018, 10:30:42 PM »

Also...don't forget about asking around the squadrons with aircraft.

They may be ferrying and aircraft or doing some long distance flight training.

Much easier then trying to get a MSA through the pipeline.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,349

« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2018, 12:38:49 PM »

Also even if there was a military aircraft with empty seats going to where you're going, the seats may not be available to anyone because the crew is conducting training where passengers are not allowed. Stuff like touch and go landings....
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goblin
Forum Regular

Posts: 177

« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2018, 05:53:27 PM »

I wouldn’t put any eggs in that basket. The odds of all the stars aligning for that to work out are pretty low.

PHall makes a great point about the training requirements too.


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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,598
Unit: Classified

« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2018, 06:52:50 PM »

Plus the regional liaison has to OK it and I don't see one doing that for one member.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,337

« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2018, 07:22:37 PM »

Plus the regional liaison has to OK it and I don't see one doing that for one member.

Not just the LR-ADO, the CAP-USAF CC would need to approve it.

Depending on who you speak to, Military Transport Flights for CAP members are either unicorns or kryptonite,
but neither is going to fit your need here, and even assuming your flight was approved, the military is not
running an airline, and it's not uncommon that orders change, airplanes break, or other circumstances scrub a flight
or a mission.  If that happens, you're stuck there, probably having to rent an expensive 1-way car.
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audiododd
Member

Posts: 61
Unit: SWR-AZ-083

« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2018, 11:48:59 PM »

What state?  Any way to have someone that need proficiency shuttle you somewhere and/cost share a flight?
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stillamarine
400,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 833
Unit: SER-AL-134

« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2018, 01:50:27 PM »

Also even if there was a military aircraft with empty seats going to where you're going, the seats may not be available to anyone because the crew is conducting training where passengers are not allowed. Stuff like touch and go landings....

Is that a new thing? I remember catching a Space A flight to Korea and they did a bunch of touch and gos at like two of the air fields there on the way.
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Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,598
Unit: Classified

« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2018, 02:07:10 PM »

Also even if there was a military aircraft with empty seats going to where you're going, the seats may not be available to anyone because the crew is conducting training where passengers are not allowed. Stuff like touch and go landings....

Is that a new thing? I remember catching a Space A flight to Korea and they did a bunch of touch and gos at like two of the air fields there on the way.

No it's not.  There are many factors that go into the flights.  I have been working to military o-flights for my group for awhile now and keep running into roadblocks. 
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stillamarine
400,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 833
Unit: SER-AL-134

« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2018, 04:04:43 PM »

No I just meant no passengers on flights that do touch and gos.
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Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,349

« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2018, 05:06:52 PM »

Here is the current guidance for the C-17. The KC-135 and C-130 have similar restrictions.

AFI11-2C-17V3 16 NOVEMBER 2011 137
Chapter 9
TRAINING AND OPERATING LIMITATIONS
9.1. Passengers on Training Missions.
9.1.1. Initial qualification or re-qualification for pilots will not be conducted with passengers
onboard (N/A MEP).
9.1.2. Mission certification training, upgrade training, evaluations, off station trainers, and
JA/ATTs may carry passengers only if the aircrew in training is qualified. Tanker and
receiver AAR is authorized if the pilot flying is qualified (AF Form 8 on file documenting
successful completion of an aircraft checkride including air refueling).
9.1.3. Touch-and-go landings, multiple practice approaches, doors open in flight, practice
emergency separations, and airdrops are prohibited with passengers onboard. (N/A with
MEP. MEP is defined in AFI 11-401). Personnel scheduled to jump following a heavy/CDS
airdrop, safeties, MEP, exercise participants that will be offloaded by “airland” procedures
following the airdrop, or any personnel authorized by the JA/ATT tasking order may be
transported on airdrop training missions. Nonparticipants in the exercise, OST or JA/ATT
are prohibited. Exception: When approved by the MAJCOM, maintenance and civilian
employees, under direct contract to the DoD and engaged in official direct mission support
activities, considered mission essential may be onboard when touch-and-go or stop and-go
landings are performed providing the mission is a designated training flight and an IP or EP
is in command.
9.1.4. IAW 11-202V3, practice emergency procedures are prohibited with any passengers
onboard. Passengers are defined as anyone listed on a passenger manifest.
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