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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Low Recruit Discipline Prompts Army to Redesign Basic Training
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OldGuy
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 507
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2018, 12:51:14 AM »

I was disagreeing with absdp51's unproductive and ridiculous attitude of blaming millennials when it's the LEADER's job to overcome obstacles.

And yet the culture is the issue. You impute blame, I see facts.
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Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2018, 12:52:35 AM »

From Gen. Colin Powell's "13 Leadership Rules:"

"Rule 4: It Can be Done!

Leaders are about making things happen.  They continually ask, Why Not, when faced with the improbable.  While one approach may not work, it can be done another way.  Find the other way to make it happen!"

Okay, you can look up and post quotes of famous people. Now how about a way to deal with the "entitled" millennials?

I think the Army has some good ideas that is putting them on a track that will likely to be successful with dealing with the sense of entitlement.

I wasn't disagreeing with the Army's approach or with the article.  I was disagreeing with absdp51's unproductive and ridiculous attitude of blaming millennials when it's the LEADER's job to overcome obstacles.  If you can't lead your team to do what you need to do it, it IS your fault, not theirs.

"I lead many of today's younger airmen and take into account the differences but at the end of the day if I give an order that is not illegal, unethical nor immoral they are duty bound to follow that order and legally bound to follow it.  And really there should be no further explanation needed.  And how you follow orders outside of the battlefield will generally give a leader a good idea on how someone will follow them on the battlefield or in a crisis."

1. If they aren't abiding by your lawful order, it's because YOU haven't instilled the need in them to do so.
2. You're correct that there "should be" no further explanation needed, but many times (especially with this generation,) explaining the WHY goes a lot farther to getting buy-in than "because I said so."

Just my thoughts from years of Civilian Leadership.  Of course, since I've never served or seen combat, I don't know what I'm talking about.

YMMV


Disobeying your civilian boss can only get you fired. Disobeying your military boss can send you to jail.
And that folks is the difference between military and civilian life. The stakes are much higher in the military.

Couldn't agree more.  That's why it's so important for the US Military to find a way to properly instill the discipline needed in this generation of Americans.  :D
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Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2018, 12:59:35 AM »

I was disagreeing with absdp51's unproductive and ridiculous attitude of blaming millennials when it's the LEADER's job to overcome obstacles.

And yet the culture is the issue. You impute blame, I see facts.

It doesn't matter one bit if the culture is the issue.  That is something that you, nor I, nor absdp15, nor the US Military has control over.  There are times when the root cause is within your control.  This is not one of those times.  The only thing within the control of the US Military is how they change their training curriculum to address it.

Currently working my way through OBC.  The section about "Implementing Change" discusses how one should constantly be seeking change in an effort to continually improve.  This generation encompasses Americans aged 18-30.  So the US Military has been enlisting this generation for 12 years.  Have they failed to constantly seek change in BTC in an effort to continually improve BTC?  Why is this just now becoming an issue they address?
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OldGuy
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 507
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2018, 01:09:26 AM »

  Why is this just now becoming an issue they address?
Standards became fluid during the last administration. For a variety of reasons. Leave your politics at the door, it happened and everyone knows it.
Maybe because - for whatever reason - the last administration chose to relax standards, BADLY. Now we are starting to address them again.
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Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2018, 01:16:30 AM »

  Why is this just now becoming an issue they address?
Standards became fluid during the last administration. For a variety of reasons. Leave your politics at the door, it happened and everyone knows it.
Maybe because - for whatever reason - the last administration chose to relax standards, BADLY. Now we are starting to address them again.

Yeah, I would disagree.  If the military has had experience with recruiting and training this generation for 12 years, than it would have been the administration BEFORE the last administration when the issue began.
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OldGuy
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 507
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2018, 01:30:36 AM »

Yeah, I would disagree.  If the military has had experience with recruiting and training this generation for 12 years, than it would have been the administration BEFORE the last administration when the issue began.
Maybe, but so what? The issue is that the culture changed, and as a country our answer was to sequester funds, cut budgets and lower standards. Now we are addressing that. To quote another poster, check your politics - and (my words) deal with the facts. We have a problem.

BTW as leaders of cadets, we have a real opportunity and - I would argue - a solemn obligation - to be part of the solution.

Some of our teen charges will serve, and some will go into harms way. We owe them our very best. IMHO. YMMV.
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Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2018, 01:39:22 AM »

Yeah, I would disagree.  If the military has had experience with recruiting and training this generation for 12 years, than it would have been the administration BEFORE the last administration when the issue began.
Maybe, but so what? The issue is that the culture changed, and as a country our answer was to sequester funds, cut budgets and lower standards. Now we are addressing that. To quote another poster, check your politics - and (my words) deal with the facts. We have a problem.

BTW as leaders of cadets, we have a real opportunity and - I would argue - a solemn obligation - to be part of the solution.

Some of our teen charges will serve, and some will go into harms way. We owe them our very best. IMHO. YMMV.

So bringing politics into it is fine as long as they're YOUR politics.  Got it.  Have a good night, sir.  :D
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OldGuy
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 507
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2018, 01:43:02 AM »

So bringing politics into it is fine as long as they're YOUR politics.  Got it.  Have a good night, sir.  :D
Nope. None by me. That you impute same suggests something about you. I was quoting another poster. You seemingly chose to make it personal. Odd.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,505
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2018, 01:55:44 AM »

Are we done measuring here?

Click.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Low Recruit Discipline Prompts Army to Redesign Basic Training
 


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