Recognition ribbon???

[arajca]

One form of recognition ribbon I'd like to see is a CAP ribbon for military service. Our veteran members have provided great service to this nation, many of them have shed blood for it. I think a simple ribbon award that can be worn by members in corporate uniforms would be a nice recognition of their service. Yes, you can wear military awards on the AF style uniform, but I think our members who must or choose to wear corporate uniforms deserve some sort of visible recognition. It could also be worn on the AF style uniform if one chooses not to wear military awards.

One has been submitted. It went 'somewhere'.

[JC004]

The Recognition Ribbon serves the purpose outlined in my thread to which Eclipse linked.

It serves to be a ribbon for, say, Aerospace Education Officer of the Year, since it's a little silly that you can wear a ribbon for something like running a nice activity (an Achievement award, for example), but not AEO of the Year, for being generally outstanding and doing a bunch of things above Achievement ribbon-level.

It is silly to award something special like a national-level Officer of the Year award, and not have a ribbon, when you have one for much lessor things. 

It's also inappropriate (and against regulations) for commanders to authorize a second award, for the purpose of giving the person a ribbon.  This practice is inconsistently applied, and a Recognition Ribbon is consistent. 

It is, however, not official, and shouldn't be on a chart. 

[biomed441]

The Recognition Ribbon serves the purpose outlined in my thread to which Eclipse linked.

It serves to be a ribbon for, say, Aerospace Education Officer of the Year, since it's a little silly that you can wear a ribbon for something like running a nice activity (an Achievement award, for example), but not AEO of the Year, for being generally outstanding and doing a bunch of things above Achievement ribbon-level.

It is silly to award something special like a national-level Officer of the Year award, and not have a ribbon, when you have one for much lessor things. 

It's also inappropriate (and against regulations) for commanders to authorize a second award, for the purpose of giving the person a ribbon.  This practice is inconsistently applied, and a Recognition Ribbon is consistent. 

It is, however, not official, and shouldn't be on a chart.

So would something like this be retroactive to all those who have previously earned "of the year awards" from wing/region/nhq? Seems like enough thought has gone into this ribbon, so much so to actually have been designed and submitted to VG. Curious about the circumstances of why it has not been approved yet.

[JC004]

So would something like this be retroactive to all those who have previously earned "of the year awards" from wing/region/nhq? Seems like enough thought has gone into this ribbon, so much so to actually have been designed and submitted to VG. Curious about the circumstances of why it has not been approved yet.

There's no reason to cut it off, as long as people have some record -- an article, a plaque, whatever, of their award, and it's on the list.  They can simply put it into their eServices awards list.  It would probably be easier to get this data, in general, than to figure out something like an old non-distress find, for which the records have long disappeared.

Although the Air Force does it for service-level awards, I'd do it as wing, region, or national level (not below wing level), in the categories I listed. 

This stuff can fall through the cracks if it isn't someone's baby, who is actually on the committees or whatever.  I'd probably stick it where the Lifesaving is, and move the Lifesaving up out of its awkward place in the order of precedence. 

[biomed441]

There's no reason to cut it off, as long as people have some record -- an article, a plaque, whatever, of their award, and it's on the list.  They can simply put it into their eServices awards list.  It would probably be easier to get this data, in general, than to figure out something like an old non-distress find, for which the records have long disappeared.

Although the Air Force does it for service-level awards, I'd do it as wing, region, or national level (not below wing level), in the categories I listed. 

This stuff can fall through the cracks if it isn't someone's baby, who is actually on the committees or whatever.  I'd probably stick it where the Lifesaving is, and move the Lifesaving up out of its awkward place in the order of precedence.

According to the chart from VG they have the ribbon set as just above the command service ribbon. . . strange place for something like this.  I agree it may merit something higher with the achievement medal and commanders commendation award.  I wonder who the committee rep that started the initial leg-work on this is; I'd be more than happy to put a bug in their ear on this one.  Do like you said and have it a wing/region/national level award. Perhaps mirror the commanders commendation with the basic ribbon issued by wing, bronze and silver star to denote region or national.  Make it retroactive to those who have received previous of the year awards with documentation or physical proof. 

[Eclipse]

Or just not, which is likely what the NUC decided.

CAP does not need a dec to commemorate "all that isn't a dec".  That will literally become, overnight,
a ribbon nearly every member will have, and lose any meaning intended.

CAP would be better off if it dropped the fiction of the "of the nominated" awards altogether.

[Robert Hartigan]

There are too many ribbons. I know one guy that has so many and wears them all that it is just gaudy to the point of being almost an embarrassment; it looks unprofessional and because there are so many that have nothing more than trinket value his important accomplishments are diminished. CAP needs less ribbons not more. I'm pretty sure that if you decide not to join CAP you get a ribbon.

[Spaceman3750]

I'm pretty sure that if you decide not to join CAP you get a ribbon.

Probably not, but they are one of the only forms of "payment" we get. A brief, positive, conversation between the "one guy" and his commander to the tune of "hey, would you mind short stacking?" is likely all it would take to resolve this perceived "issue."

That said, I agree with Eclipse.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm pretty sure that if you decide not to join CAP you get a ribbon.

Probably not, but they are one of the only forms of "payment" we get. A brief, positive, conversation between the "one guy" and his commander to the tune of "hey, would you mind short stacking?" is likely all it would take to resolve this perceived "issue."

That said, I agree with Eclipse.

Well when people like me get the OTY Awards, you know something is wrong. 

[JC004]

There's no reason to cut it off, as long as people have some record -- an article, a plaque, whatever, of their award, and it's on the list.  They can simply put it into their eServices awards list.  It would probably be easier to get this data, in general, than to figure out something like an old non-distress find, for which the records have long disappeared.

Although the Air Force does it for service-level awards, I'd do it as wing, region, or national level (not below wing level), in the categories I listed. 

This stuff can fall through the cracks if it isn't someone's baby, who is actually on the committees or whatever.  I'd probably stick it where the Lifesaving is, and move the Lifesaving up out of its awkward place in the order of precedence.

According to the chart from VG they have the ribbon set as just above the command service ribbon. . . strange place for something like this.  I agree it may merit something higher with the achievement medal and commanders commendation award.  I wonder who the committee rep that started the initial leg-work on this is; I'd be more than happy to put a bug in their ear on this one.  Do like you said and have it a wing/region/national level award. Perhaps mirror the commanders commendation with the basic ribbon issued by wing, bronze and silver star to denote region or national.  Make it retroactive to those who have received previous of the year awards with documentation or physical proof.

They're attempting to place it where the Air Force service ribbons are -- Good Conduct, Air Reserve Forces Meritorious Service Medal, Outstanding Airman of the Year Ribbon...

Of course, we don't use Air Force Order of Precedence in ribbons, so things might seem off.

CAP Order is like this:


Air Force order is like this, using CAP ribbons with their approximate equiv.:




I could try to find the original proposal document (some of this stuff died due to computer failure, and lack of enough disk space to back everything up).

[biomed441]

They're attempting to place it where the Air Force service ribbons are -- Good Conduct, Air Reserve Forces Meritorious Service Medal, Outstanding Airman of the Year Ribbon...

Of course, we don't use Air Force Order of Precedence in ribbons, so things might seem off.

I could try to find the original proposal document (some of this stuff died due to computer failure, and lack of enough disk space to back everything up).

Personally I'd favor the AF order of precedence. It seems to make more sense in my head.  YMMV.  Though we of course run into the age old argument as seen above. "We have too many ribbons".  Not sure I'd say we have too many, but we do have a lot, and perhaps some consolidation with the professional development ribbons into one or two PD awards, maybe even consolidating the AE awards (never understood getting a ribbon for taking a test.) Consolidate some of what we have to make room for awards such as recognition, commendations, etc... would be an acceptable move. My opinion of course.

CAP does not need a dec to commemorate "all that isn't a dec".  That will literally become, overnight,
a ribbon nearly every member will have, and lose any meaning intended.

CAP would be better off if it dropped the fiction of the "of the nominated" awards altogether.

No, we do not need a dec to commemorate "all that isn't a dec."  I would though like to see more ribbons/medals for achievement based actions that reflect a members involvement and dedication to the organization, rather than the "hey look, I took a test, went to some classes" and got a ribbon.  I think that is really where my support for something like a recognition ribbon comes into play.  For what, and how it would be applied I don't know.  If going off what JC004 said the initial intent was, I could get behind that as well.  I do see your point about it loosing value, if we did an initial retroactive award (unless say the wing supplemented it with a commanders commendation instead?) but it would have the same effect I think as when an entire wing is awarded a unit citation when 90% of the wing didn't participate in the events that took place.

[Luis R. Ramos]

...that reflect a members involvement and dedication to the organization, rather than the "hey look, I took a test, went to some classes"...

Why wouldn't taking tests and going to classes required by the organization reflect members involvement and dedication to an organization? Methinks members that think otherwise are not seeing the forest for being too close to the trees... Or something like that...

[biomed441]

...that reflect a members involvement and dedication to the organization, rather than the "hey look, I took a test, went to some classes"...

Why wouldn't taking tests and going to classes required by the organization reflect members involvement and dedication to an organization? Methinks members that think otherwise are not seeing the forest for being too close to the trees... Or something like that...

I should have worded that different, my fault. I don't mean to say things like SLS, CLC, RSC, NSC are not important, because they are, especially for those who take the time to bring the knowledge back to their unit rather than just using it as a check box for their next promotion.  And they're getting a reward for the time and energy spent on these things... IE their next grade. An additional ribbon in that regard seems silly to me and redundant.  A ribbon showing what you learned, vs a ribbon showing that you used what you learned to better the organization.  I think that was what I was getting at.  If that makes any sense.  My mind and my fingers have a communication gap...

[Luis R. Ramos]

I still do not understand.

The ribbon reflects one achievement, the grade reflects several different achievements.

Do not see why "have a cow" over it... As others would say...

Have to go to my part-time...

[biomed441]

I still do not understand.

The ribbon reflects one achievement, the grade reflects several different achievements.

Do not see why "have a cow" over it... As others would say...

Have to go to my part-time...

You're right, and I don't have a personal vendetta or dislike for the PD ribbons.  Many have suggested though, on this topic and others that we have too many ribbons, so, if that is indeed a problem (not a one to me but everyone has their opinions) I would consolidate awards before removing or preventing awards such as recognition.  IMHO, I would much rather be presented a medal for recognition by my peers that show I did something that made an impact, than be given a ribbon because I complete a set of requirements that eventually I'll get another form of recognition for.  If approving a new ribbon meant we had to kill 5 or 6 others, I'd rather see a new form of peer recognition and consolidate/eliminate the more administratively based medals. Just my thoughts. 

My honest thought overall though is keep all of the ribbons we have, and if we find another way to recognize someone with a ribbon, I say why not. We may have a lot of ribbons, but still can't compare to our parent service. 

[GaryVC]

In particular I think the unit citation ribbons are too high in the order of precedence. I have notice that for many members it is their highest ribbon.

[Eclipse]

Just in general comment to the above.

NHQ should discontinue the practice of allowing unit citations to be awarded for entire wings or regions, this decorates
many many people who were not involved and set the improper tone for these awards.  "The guys back at home
helped mind the store while the guys on the front lines did the heavy lifting..." doesn't actually "work" when you do the
CAP math, since 1/3rd to 1/2 of most wings aren't even involved in ES or Operations. 

Despite the fact that CAP tends to treat them that way in an inconsistent manner, promotions are not rewards for
work done, they are expectations of increased responsibility.  Were CAP to actually hold members to that standard and ideal,
decorations would become all the more important, because promotions would be much more limited and the decs and
badges would become more of an indication of one's longevity and success.

As it stands today, and will until 2018, it's possible to have a bare-minimum Lt Col who has only earned 5 decorations,
standing next to hard-charger Lts with two shoulders worth.

[Eclipse]

In particular I think the unit citation ribbons are too high in the order of precedence. I have notice that for many members it is their highest ribbon.

Where else would you put it?  It's already at the bottom of precedence for "over and above" decorations.

You see it at the top for many because it's often being presented to too broad a scope of people.

[Alaric]

Just in general comment to the above.

NHQ should discontinue the practice of allowing unit citations to be awarded for entire wings or regions, this decorates
many many people who were not involved and set the improper tone for these awards.  "The guys back at home
helped mind the store while the guys on the front lines did the heavy lifting..." doesn't actually "work" when you do the
CAP math, since 1/3rd to 1/2 of most wings aren't even involved in ES or Operations. 

Despite the fact that CAP tends to treat them that way in an inconsistent manner, promotions are not rewards for
work done, they are expectations of increased responsibility.  Were CAP to actually hold members to that standard and ideal,
decorations would become all the more important, because promotions would be much more limited and the decs and
badges would become more of an indication of one's longevity and success.

As it stands today, and will until 2018, it's possible to have a bare-minimum Lt Col who has only earned 5 decorations,
standing next to hard-charger Lts with two shoulders worth.

What happens in 2018?

[Eclipse]

What happens in 2018?

The ability for members to get their next promotion under the old requirements will expire,
at which time Level V will be required for Lt Col, making it 6 decs minimum.