Punishment Question

[Pedfltmed22]

The Group Commander suggested an honor board made up of three SM's. They will make a recommendation to me on how to handle this situation. 

[Toth]

The Group Commander suggested an honor board made up of three SM's. They will make a recommendation to me on how to handle this situation.

I think that's a good idea. Sometimes when it comes to cadets things have to be handled with a little more care than with adults. I don't necessarily agree that it should have to be that way, but I think we've all made a stupid mistake that we were only lightly punished for and are a better person because we learned our lesson.

[Chappie]

Use it in a Character Development session when discussing INTEGRITY

Though I appreciate the intent, the CAPR 265-1requires all CDIs and Chaplains to use the material approved by the Chief.  This protects both the one who presents as well as the corporation.  I would suggest that the poster finds a published lesson that fits this situation....or writes a lesson based on this situation and gets it approved for use.

[lordmonar]

The Group Commander suggested an honor board made up of three SM's. They will make a recommendation to me on how to handle this situation.

And what exactly is an "Honor Board"?
What are its powers?
What are its governing regulations?
What are its procedures?
What are the rights of the accused?
What are the appeal procedures?

I'm sorry about hammering you on this, it is not really your fault.   But it would be better if YOU got to the "truth" of the situation then you meet with your trusted advisor to come up with a game plan.

[Mitchell 1969]

I offer these three points for consideration:

1) It seems that you have verified that he did it. But, have you learned WHY he did it? Did someone tell him it was OK? Was he afraid to ask you to sign it? Couldn't be bothered? Different explanations could result in different outcomes.

2) We know he is a cadet, but...how old? Adding his "why" to his age could be telling. And, what grade? Was this a 12-year old Cadet Airman who didn't know better or who felt intimidated? Or a 17-year old Cadet Captain who just tried to pull a fast one, despite knowing the rules and risks? Again, outcome could depend on the fact set.

3) Personally, I don't agree that "punishment" is the best choice of word for this topic. We are in the business of cranking out "Dynamic Americans and Aerospace Leaders." Punishment really isn't part of that, although discipline is. And discipline comes from the Latin "disciplina," meaning "instruction given, teaching, learning, knowledge" - all of which will be done or imparted in this case.

[Mitchell 1969]

The Group Commander suggested an honor board made up of three SM's. They will make a recommendation to me on how to handle this situation.

And what exactly is an "Honor Board"?
What are its powers?
What are its governing regulations?
What are its procedures?
What are the rights of the accused?
What are the appeal procedures?

I'm sorry about hammering you on this, it is not really your fault.   But it would be better if YOU got to the "truth" of the situation then you meet with your trusted advisor to come up with a game plan.

I agree with that. "Honor board" is one of those nebulous things that sounds good but has too much room for individual interpretation and isn't even covered by regulations. You don't need a board to help sort it out. You don't need a board to tell you what to do. You are the squadron commander - so, command the squadron.

[Brit_in_CAP]

The Group Commander suggested an honor board made up of three SM's. They will make a recommendation to me on how to handle this situation.

And what exactly is an "Honor Board"?
What are its powers?
What are its governing regulations?
What are its procedures?
What are the rights of the accused?
What are the appeal procedures?

I'm sorry about hammering you on this, it is not really your fault.   But it would be better if YOU got to the "truth" of the situation then you meet with your trusted advisor to come up with a game plan.

I agree with that. "Honor board" is one of those nebulous things that sounds good but has too much room for individual interpretation and isn't even covered by regulations. You don't need a board to help sort it out. You don't need a board to tell you what to do. You are the squadron commander - so, command the squadron.

^ This.

Get to the facts, exactly as you would with an employee in a company.  Counsel / advise / mentor...within the rules!  I nearly got sucked into something like this a few years ago, relating to a SM.  Bad place to go.  My advise to the CC was exactly as suggested by lordmonar and Mitchell1969; in the end the SM departed but that was the bets thing too happen, and we stayed within the regs - good for all concerned.

[NIN]

The Group Commander suggested an honor board made up of three SM's. They will make a recommendation to me on how to handle this situation.

This is, in general, the way I would advise against unless there was some overriding reason to remove the commander from the decision/fact-finding loop (ie. conflict of interest. A legit one, not a perceived or assumed one)

This would be akin to an NCO being told "You can't counsel that shamming Specialist for his tardiness to formation. You have to grab three other NCOs to speak to him and give you a recommendation as to how to proceed."  Right.

Commanders who abrogate their responsibility and command prerogative generally can't get it back that easily.

[Garibaldi]

I'm not sure I would consider an "honor board" to be a "legal" way of doing things.  Just my opinion, but it sounds too much like something a military academy would do to prosecute honor violations. Which we do not do.

Handle it at the lowest echelon, which is the unit CC. Unless it involves a cadet protection violation, or the theft and joyriding of a corporate vehicle or aircraft, this should remain within the unit CC's purview.

Just my .02

[Eclipse]

As a new CC, how you handle this could shape the perception of your members for the rest of your tenure.

The knee jerk is to "get this kid", but part of your job is developing him as a leader, and as a parent, I can tell you that
kids do dumb things for what "seemed like a good idea at the time".

A sit-down with his parents is probably your best option, with the first step being to ascertain "why" this happened at all.
Beyond a temporary demotion, or retaining him in grade for a while, your options are pretty limited beyond terminating him,
especially if you are interested in more then mere punishment.

Assuming he wants to stay a member to start with, you can only push so hard before he'll simply quit.

As mentioned, "honor boards" aren't a "thing" in CAP, and whomever suggested that is misguided at best.  If they disagree,
ask them for the regulation or pamphlet that spells out the procedure for you relinquishing your authority over one of your members
and delegating it to another body.  You, as CC, are the sole authority on membership and disciplinary action.  Appeal of those
actions is the next higher echelon, but not the initiator.

You're the Commander.  Command.

[ZigZag911]

If it's advice you're looking for:

1) get the cadet in to see you, with at least one parent

2) have your deputy for cadets present, if possible; if not, at least another reliable senior as witness

3) discuss the incident, but do it in the context of te cadet's status within CAP and the unit -- attendance, progress, level of maturity, ability to accept personal responsibility

4) listen -- a lot

5) don't feel you have to render an on the psot decision...it's good to consider what is said, as well as attidues -- and, besides, sometimes waiting for the "verdict" is enough to get the individual's attention. I'd tend to wait at least 3 days, maybe as much as 7, before delivering the final decision.

2B sounds extreme at this point, since we are supposed to practice progressive discipline.

And the honor board idea is just asking for an IG complaint against you

[Tim Day]

Have the discussion, then if you decide that a standard has not been met follow up with a CAPF 50 which includes specific guidance on meeting that standard. Include the success criteria and time by when the cadet needs to have met that criteria. Feedback gives the cadet something to guide him.