Punishment Question

[Pedfltmed22]

As many of you know I am a new commander. I am prior service Army and I know what I would do if this was a service member. As a CAP squadron commander I don't want to seem to hard but I don't want to appear to soft either. I had a cadet show up to a leadership school with a application that stated "commander verbal authorization" in my signature block. The school commander called me and of course I knew nothing about this cadet being there so I had him sent home. I now have to deal with him at the squadron and I know what the book says what I can do but I have no clue how to handle this. I am reaching out to the more experienced group to lead this young pup in the right direction. I want to 2B him but I am being told that is to harsh and may not get the backing of the Wing Commander. Help me out here.....

[abdsp51]

First time offense?  Yeah that's a bit harsh.  You should look at the whole person.  Is this a problem child cadet, a cadet who just had a brain dump etc....

Without more details it would be hard to say and it's something to be discussed with your CP staff and Group CC.

[Flying Pig]

So essentially... what the cadet did was stop one step below actually forging your signature? 

First and foremost cadets are kids.  Why didn't the cadet just get your signature?  Did the cadet fail to plan and really wanted to go?  Was he told not to go and went anyway?  With cadets, you do need to consider home life.  What do the parents say, if anything?  Can the cadet be suspended from promotion for a couple months?  Whats the cadets past history like?  Was this out of character or was this a life lesson?

I always refer back to 2 specific cadets my late friend Rick Finkelstein worked with.  Both were from terrible homes, lived in gang neighborhoods, had ZERO respect for authority and at one point one of them challenged the Cadet CC to a fight.  Rick had been a teacher in the Oakland School district in CA.  Long story short... both of those "kids" are now grown and in the military.  My cop mindset was to toss them out for the garbage man.  Ricks mindset was "no..... lets work with them a while longer and see what happens."

So as you proceed, just keep in mind cadets are kids still making mistakes. 

[Pedfltmed22]

I have never met this cadet. He transferred into the squadron and has been to one meeting. I would have gladly authorized him to go to the course. 

[Flying Pig]

Sounds like a parent teacher conference is in order.

[abdsp51]

Then some counselling/mentoring is in order and an explanation about how things work.  Tossing the kid for a first time offense is a bit harsh.

[FW]

Then some counselling/mentoring is in order and an explanation about how things work.  Tossing the kid for a first time offense is a bit harsh.

I agree.

Sounds like a parent teacher conference is in order.

If the first doesn't work, this is the second try...

[Pedfltmed22]

Would a reduction in one grade(FromTech) be fitting is would this be to harsh as well?

[goblin]

I have never met this cadet. He transferred into the squadron and has been to one meeting. I would have gladly authorized him to go to the course.

He didn't get verbal auth from his old CC did he?

[abdsp51]

Would a reduction in one grade(FromTech) be fitting is would this be to harsh as well?

Ok I get wanting to drop the hammer and throw the book at the kid.  But you don't know him that well or his history,  are you going to do the same for the rest of your cadets when they an error along the same lines or any lines?

Counsel/mentor and explain the expectations for attending activities.  You drop the hammer on this then you should be dropping it on the rest of the cadets for offenses along the same lines. 

Are you prepared to have your numbers dropped because you chose a severe form of punishment so early???

[NCRblues]

Would a reduction in one grade(FromTech) be fitting is would this be to harsh as well?

I would use this opportunity to lay down your "law" for him.

He is brand new to the unit like you stated. Maybe his last unit this was accepted in?

Take some time to sit down one on one with him. Be stern but also fair. Give him a warning. Or as my SNCO's loved to say "put the fear of God into him". I am sure you know that speech well. Just remember he is a child still.

Use this moment as a teaching tool for him and for you. You should have meet him as soon as he transferred in to the unit.

Good luck!

[abdsp51]

I have never met this cadet. He transferred into the squadron and has been to one meeting. I would have gladly authorized him to go to the course.

He didn't get verbal auth from his old CC did he?

Wouldn't matter there needs to be a sig from the cc CDC or someone who this was delegated too. Most activities wont take an app without a sig.

[Pedfltmed22]

No he did not get auth from his old commander. When he was questioned by the staff he stuck with his story that he had auth from me until I was on the phone then he came clean. His older brother is in the squadron and his father was a member for a time.

[goblin]

I have never met this cadet. He transferred into the squadron and has been to one meeting. I would have gladly authorized him to go to the course.

He didn't get verbal auth from his old CC did he?

Wouldn't matter there needs to be a sig from the cc CDC or someone who this was delegated too. Most activities wont take an app without a sig.

Right.

But if the old CC wasn't aware of this and the cadet was led to believe this was okay, I can understand the issue.

[goblin]

No he did not get auth from his old commander. When he was questioned by the staff he stuck with his story that he had auth from me until I was on the phone then he came clean.

Copy.

Then time to have a chat.

[USACAP]

Some cadets earnestly don't know that things like that are a big no-go unless we tell them.
With a sibling and parent in, he should know ...
But I'd never assume.
It's a teachable moment for everyone.
It's common sense to the full-time senior NCO in you and field grade in me but not to a teenager.
I have had to step back many times when confronted with "sir, I honestly didn't know - no one ever explained that to me."

[Garibaldi]

Giving cadets the benefit of the doubt sometimes is a good thing, since on occasion they honestly don't know. In this case, sticking to his story until confronted with his CC's denial that he'd ever given this cadet permission, verbal or otherwise, shows intent. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

In this case, sitting down with the young man in question, espousing the Core Values of Integrity and Excellence, and letting him know that fraudulent use of your position and name on a CAP form could be grounds for instant dismissal may work.

Teachable moment.

Now, if it, or something similar happens in the future, THEN I'd say further steps would be warranted, up to and including termination. Things like withholding advancement, removal from positions, withholding endorsement for activities, and demotion normally work. I say "up to and including termination" because you can't just threaten and threaten without having a final fallback. Just like any normal job, if you get put on notice, you will see that they cover their butt by saying "any further action of this nature may result in further punitive action up to and including termination". At least my company does.

[Chappie]

^^^ wise counsel

[Brit_in_CAP]

Giving cadets the benefit of the doubt sometimes is a good thing, since on occasion they honestly don't know. In this case, sticking to his story until confronted with his CC's denial that he'd ever given this cadet permission, verbal or otherwise, shows intent. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

In this case, sitting down with the young man in question, espousing the Core Values of Integrity and Excellence, and letting him know that fraudulent use of your position and name on a CAP form could be grounds for instant dismissal may work.

Teachable moment.

Now, if it, or something similar happens in the future, THEN I'd say further steps would be warranted, up to and including termination. Things like withholding advancement, removal from positions, withholding endorsement for activities, and demotion normally work. I say "up to and including termination" because you can't just threaten and threaten without having a final fallback. Just like any normal job, if you get put on notice, you will see that they cover their butt by saying "any further action of this nature may result in further punitive action up to and including termination". At least my company does.

^^Good and sensible advice.

[MSG Mac]

Use it in a Character Development session when discussing INTEGRITY