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Garibaldi
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,325
Unit: SER-GA-045

Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« on: February 07, 2016, 03:34:33 PM »

I was looking at this suggested story on my Facebook news feed and this article popped up. At the end of the slideshow was a picture of what looks like cadets cleaning up the area.

The story is, when air mail was in its infancy, there were these giant concrete arrows made to point out the route, along with a light and a shack for an attendant. Here is the link to the photo.

http://www.americanews.com/gallery/society/2015/10/20/discover-forgotten-giant-arrows-guide-travelers-across-america/slide/15

Click back to see the whole story, or don't. It's still nice to see CAP popping up in places you don't expect.
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You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,630

« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2016, 05:20:48 PM »

They still maintain a couple of them as museums.   There is one outside of Albuquerque New Mexico.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
MacGruff
Seasoned Member

Posts: 334

« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2016, 11:54:46 AM »

Smithsonian Air & Space had an article on them in this month's issue.
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Raikkonen
Recruit

Posts: 40
Unit: AZ-046

« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2016, 01:08:31 PM »

Those were pretty common on all air routes when navigation was in its infancy.  It's really interesting.  Thanks so much for the link!
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,058
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2016, 01:01:48 AM »

So, today I am in Huntsville AL at Redstone Arsenal for a tri service (Army/Navy/USAF) flight symbology working group and design review, and this thread was in the back of my mind as I was viewing a presentation being given on helmet mounted display (HMD) cueing for instrument approaches in degraded visual conditions.

The concept, which has just passed some developmental flight test (DT) milestones, was to present virtual arrows in the pilots HMD field of view, superimposed over the terrain floor, aligned with the desired course to intercept the approach.

Old concepts that worked, reworked to serve anew, as we work to improve degraded visual environment approaches and en route nav. Imagine a series of "virtual" giant arrows superimposed over the ground, easily pointing you on your way, wherever your HMD lets you look.

Wish I could post the design slides... sorry guys, (U) but restricted at this time.


V/R
Spam




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Raikkonen
Recruit

Posts: 40
Unit: AZ-046

« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2016, 04:49:55 PM »

So, today I am in Huntsville AL at Redstone Arsenal for a tri service (Army/Navy/USAF) flight symbology working group and design review, and this thread was in the back of my mind as I was viewing a presentation being given on helmet mounted display (HMD) cueing for instrument approaches in degraded visual conditions.

The concept, which has just passed some developmental flight test (DT) milestones, was to present virtual arrows in the pilots HMD field of view, superimposed over the terrain floor, aligned with the desired course to intercept the approach.

Old concepts that worked, reworked to serve anew, as we work to improve degraded visual environment approaches and en route nav. Imagine a series of "virtual" giant arrows superimposed over the ground, easily pointing you on your way, wherever your HMD lets you look.

Wish I could post the design slides... sorry guys, (U) but restricted at this time.


V/R
Spam


Any chance I could get them through NIPR?  I'll pm you my Enterprise.  We have a guy in our office that is the Mil Symbology guy for all of our products.  Would be interesting to see.

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THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,860

« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2016, 04:55:44 PM »

So, today I am in Huntsville AL at Redstone Arsenal for a tri service (Army/Navy/USAF) flight symbology working group and design review, and this thread was in the back of my mind as I was viewing a presentation being given on helmet mounted display (HMD) cueing for instrument approaches in degraded visual conditions.

The concept, which has just passed some developmental flight test (DT) milestones, was to present virtual arrows in the pilots HMD field of view, superimposed over the terrain floor, aligned with the desired course to intercept the approach.

Old concepts that worked, reworked to serve anew, as we work to improve degraded visual environment approaches and en route nav. Imagine a series of "virtual" giant arrows superimposed over the ground, easily pointing you on your way, wherever your HMD lets you look.

Wish I could post the design slides... sorry guys, (U) but restricted at this time.


V/R
Spam


Any chance I could get them through NIPR?  I'll pm you my Enterprise.  We have a guy in our office that is the Mil Symbology guy for all of our products.  Would be interesting to see.

Probably not. Unclassified but restricted? You still have to have a need to know to access the info. Might want to reconsider asking that restricted info be sent to you on an open internet discussion board, no matter the method of delivery.
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Garibaldi
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,325
Unit: SER-GA-045

Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2016, 04:57:04 PM »

So, today I am in Huntsville AL at Redstone Arsenal for a tri service (Army/Navy/USAF) flight symbology working group and design review, and this thread was in the back of my mind as I was viewing a presentation being given on helmet mounted display (HMD) cueing for instrument approaches in degraded visual conditions.

The concept, which has just passed some developmental flight test (DT) milestones, was to present virtual arrows in the pilots HMD field of view, superimposed over the terrain floor, aligned with the desired course to intercept the approach.

Old concepts that worked, reworked to serve anew, as we work to improve degraded visual environment approaches and en route nav. Imagine a series of "virtual" giant arrows superimposed over the ground, easily pointing you on your way, wherever your HMD lets you look.

Wish I could post the design slides... sorry guys, (U) but restricted at this time.


V/R
Spam


Any chance I could get them through NIPR?  I'll pm you my Enterprise.  We have a guy in our office that is the Mil Symbology guy for all of our products.  Would be interesting to see.

Probably not. Unclassified but restricted? You still have to have a need to know to access the info. Might want to reconsider asking that restricted info be sent to you on an open internet discussion board, no matter the method of delivery.

Yeah...I'd rather my CC not lose his job and get arrested. I'm not ready to take over the unit yet.
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You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,058
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2016, 05:17:01 PM »

There are sometimes lots of distribution restrictions even on totally unclassified, not security related material. Examples are when the material is just pre-release because its just an immature concept, or when some vendor considers it proprietary, or when it just is being staffed around for inputs and the developer is managing versions (config control). In this instance, flying rotary wing platforms in brownouts, snow (whiteouts), flat light, and other visual obscurants is a known, public, safety of flight related problem across military and civil platforms, and we're working on countermeasures.

I'll see if I can get releasables, it really is pretty interesting stuff.

Cheers
Spam
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Chappie
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,054

« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2016, 05:28:02 PM »

A couple of interesting links:

http://sometimes-interesting.com/2013/12/04/concrete-arrows-and-the-u-s-airmail-beacon-system/

http://www.dreamsmithphotos.com/arrow/arrows.html
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Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)
Garibaldi
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,325
Unit: SER-GA-045

Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2016, 05:36:16 PM »

Just....(expletive deleted) awesome. I have a similar site about abandoned airfields I like to visit from time to time.

http://www.airfields-freeman.com/index.htm

I was going to mention this site to my cadets last night, with regards to how closed airfields are shown on maps and in real life.
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You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,860

« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2016, 05:38:00 PM »

Just....(expletive deleted) awesome. I have a similar site about abandoned airfields I like to visit from time to time.

http://www.airfields-freeman.com/index.htm

I was going to mention this site to my cadets last night, with regards to how closed airfields are shown on maps and in real life.

I use this site a lot when I take my son "adventuring"...
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Raikkonen
Recruit

Posts: 40
Unit: AZ-046

« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2016, 05:38:10 PM »

There are sometimes lots of distribution restrictions even on totally unclassified, not security related material. Examples are when the material is just pre-release because its just an immature concept, or when some vendor considers it proprietary, or when it just is being staffed around for inputs and the developer is managing versions (config control). In this instance, flying rotary wing platforms in brownouts, snow (whiteouts), flat light, and other visual obscurants is a known, public, safety of flight related problem across military and civil platforms, and we're working on countermeasures.

I'll see if I can get releasables, it really is pretty interesting stuff.

Cheers
Spam


Thanks Spam! 

 At least someone here understands the difference between Wikileaks actions and two mil guys communicating about nothing.  Even mentioning the project can be considered disclosure according to a non-disclosure statement so me asking from one govie to another to send across secured channels isn't an issue. 
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,058
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2016, 09:51:13 AM »

You bet, Scott.

The idea of the HMD design element is that pilots could load the DTED (level 0/1/2) database for their theater, plan their mission, and see the giant arrows for course overlaid on the desert floor as lead in lines, wherever their gaze angle is.  Remarkably similar to these early airmail designs, and really a return in a way to the pre-Doolittle instrument flight methods, virtually.

The jokes of course are that whoever does the software coding will be prone to putting in additional elements, e.g. "SEE ROCK CITY", "BURMA.... SHAVE..." "DRINK WHAMMY COLA", or even "BUY RAYTHEON PRODUCTS", all stretched out in giant letters over the terrain.

V/R
Spam
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Raikkonen
Recruit

Posts: 40
Unit: AZ-046

« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2016, 05:26:49 PM »

 ;D  That's funny.  Advertising through the new system haha. 
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