Phase IV cadet retained for limited squadron attendance

[mpwslp]

I have a Phase IV cadet who, due to school obligations, cannot attend every squadron meeting right now. He has held multiple positions at the squadron, including cadet commander, but now has no position and only attends approximately 65% of the weekly meetings. He has completed ALL requirements for achievement 16, has attended RCLS, and is active at the group and wing levels. He is still connected with lower ranking cadets at the squadron through CAC, and other means, in addition to higher level cadets from across the wing. The commander of the squadron has denied his promotion because he cannot attend weekly meetings.

What are your thoughts?

[dwb]

I would suggest you make your case to the unit commander rather than trying to sow discontent on CAP Talk.

[mpwslp]

I'm certainly not trying to "sow dissent"; merely trying to open a discussion about the needs/challenges of supporting higher ranking cadets. (FYI, this was discussed with the unit commander and his decision is final.)

[Spam]

From your own unit website http://oswegocap.org/cadet-programs/for-teens/:

Quote:

"What are the requirements
To become a Civil Air Patrol cadet, you must:
◾Be at least 12 years old and not yet 19.
◾Be a U.S. citizen or permanent resident (waivers available)
◾Be willing to attend most Wednesday evening training meetings at the Oswego County Airport
◾Be willing to properly wear Air Force uniforms with CAP cadet insignia, including adhering to the Air Force's standards for haircuts and shaving.
◾Pay annual dues of $32, plus a one-time uniform accessory fee of about $50".  [emphasis added, "most"].


By my math, approximately 65% attendance meets the definition of "most".  If he hasn't, he might want to point out the local level inconsistency... after which the ball is in the cadets hands if he wishes to take it further.

V/R
Spam

[AirAux]

Actually, IIRC, a cadet may always be excused for school activity.  Some cadets miss meetings for sports, others for band.  That is not an excuse for denying a cadet their promotion.  The Air Force Academy gives more emphasis on all around activity and school participation than on CAP involvement only.  Someone is overstepping their authority.

52-16:  4-4. Attendance and Retention.
a. Expectations of Cadets. Cadets are required to participate actively in their local unit if they are to progress in the Cadet Program. Excessive, unexcused absences may be cause for termination from CAP (see CAPR 35-3, Membership Termination). Any school-related activity is considered an excused absence. Cadets are responsible for informing their leaders in advance if they expect to be absent. School-related absences do not excuse cadets from promotion requirements.

[kwe1009]

Actually, IIRC, a cadet may always be excused for school activity.  Some cadets miss meetings for sports, others for band.  That is not an excuse for denying a cadet their promotion.  The Air Force Academy gives more emphasis on all around activity and school participation than on CAP involvement only.  Someone is overstepping their authority.

52-16:  4-4. Attendance and Retention.
a. Expectations of Cadets. Cadets are required to participate actively in their local unit if they are to progress in the Cadet Program. Excessive, unexcused absences may be cause for termination from CAP (see CAPR 35-3, Membership Termination). Any school-related activity is considered an excused absence. Cadets are responsible for informing their leaders in advance if they expect to be absent. School-related absences do not excuse cadets from promotion requirements.

The sentence I highlighted is a key.  Is this cadet informing their leaders in ADVANCE of his expected absence?  If so, then it should be excused by regulation.  If he is missing meetings because he is doing homework, I don't think this would be an excused absence.  If there in no other reason for denying this promotion then the commander isn't following their squadron policy and is also going against 52-16.  I think a conversation is in order between you, the commander, and maybe one or two other Senior Members that are involved in your unit's Cadet Program. 

Denying a promotion to me is very serious and there should have been a conversation with the cadet long before they were eligible for promotion to let them know that they were not on the right track for promotion. 

[Garibaldi]

Sooo...in a nutshell,  this CC is not correct in denying advancement based on meeting participation. Of course, YMMV, but IMO, this is something that may or may not need to be kicked up a level.

In our unit, we have a mantra, if you will. Family, Faith, School/Work, CAP. Family, church, and school or work will always take priority over CAP. All we ask is that if the cadet needs to fade for a bit, just let us know via chain of command what's happening. It sounds like this kid(?) may be a junior or senior in school, so his focus NEEDS to be on school. We have a cadet at the Citadel who obviously is not active, but he comes when he can, even was encampment cadet commander this past year, and took his Spaatz exam recently. Where is his focus? School, obviously. Did we counsel, hold back, outright deny him the right to take this test because he is in college? No, we did not.

Sounds like the CC has a different set of priorities. His word is not final. Someone from group or wing could tell him to knock it off, let the guy promote. Based on regs alone, he has every right to. I'm not saying jump the chain and get group or wing involved, but if you show the regs to the CC and he still says no, then he is wrong for denying the opportunity. Of course, if the kid is just not showing up and there is no documented reason for it, that's another story.

Regs are on your side in this case, my friend.

[Storm Chaser]

I'm certainly not trying to "sow dissent"; merely trying to open a discussion about the needs/challenges of supporting higher ranking cadets. (FYI, this was discussed with the unit commander and his decision is final.) (emphasis mine)

The squadron commander's decision is not final. This can be appealed to the group or wing commander, who can overturn this decision. If the cadet is as active as you state on your post, overturning this decision shouldn't be difficult.

[CAPDCCMOM]

I also go by the policy that "anything school related is excused". The only thing that ask is let me know. If we do not allow our Cadets to have balance, we will lose them quickly.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I also go by the policy that "anything school related is excused". The only thing that ask is let me know. If we do not allow our Cadets to have balance, we will lose them quickly.

Balance, but not abuse.


Some kids always have something on a meeting night. Instead of giving them a pass, perhaps a conversation regarding priorities/membership are in order.

[THRAWN]

I also go by the policy that "anything school related is excused". The only thing that ask is let me know. If we do not allow our Cadets to have balance, we will lose them quickly.

Balance, but not abuse.


Some kids always have something on a meeting night. Instead of giving them a pass, perhaps a conversation regarding priorities/membership are in order.

Or some kind of compromise. I had cadets who had wrestling meets on Mondays. During the wrestling season, they met with another local unit. Both priorities were met, and they got to experience a different unit culture. You're right though. You can learn a lot just by talking to people.

[ALORD]

I suggest the Cadet transfer to another Squadron, then they can take the credit for the outstanding young American!

[Майор Хаткевич]

I also go by the policy that "anything school related is excused". The only thing that ask is let me know. If we do not allow our Cadets to have balance, we will lose them quickly.

Balance, but not abuse.


Some kids always have something on a meeting night. Instead of giving them a pass, perhaps a conversation regarding priorities/membership are in order.

Or some kind of compromise. I had cadets who had wrestling meets on Mondays. During the wrestling season, they met with another local unit. Both priorities were met, and they got to experience a different unit culture. You're right though. You can learn a lot just by talking to people.

I absolutely understand that during sports seasons, cadets may be gone for months at a time. But that understanding comes with them understanding that participating in sports will limit their CAP progression roles. Can't have a Flight Sergeant gone for 3 months, and I won't promote someone who made it to one meeting in a quarter in order to do PT/CD for their next click.


In this particular case as outlined by OP...seems the cadet is at the end of their career. BTDT, closing in on Eaker. I personally would understand that, and given that the cadet seems to be past the "you have an important job to do" phase, the level of attendance wouldn't be a hindrance.

[lordmonar]

Bottom line.  If ALL OTHER requirements have been met.  School is a valid excuse and cannot be used to deny a promotion. 

Having said that. 

If a cadet is not active because of school does not hold a leadership position in the squadron it may be difficult to show the "shows ability to lead" requirement all promotions have.

[FW]

I have a Phase IV cadet who, due to school obligations, cannot attend every squadron meeting right now. He has held multiple positions at the squadron, including cadet commander, but now has no position and only attends approximately 65% of the weekly meetings. He has completed ALL requirements for achievement 16, has attended RCLS, and is active at the group and wing levels. He is still connected with lower ranking cadets at the squadron through CAC, and other means, in addition to higher level cadets from across the wing. The commander of the squadron has denied his promotion because he cannot attend weekly meetings.

What are your thoughts?

So, this cadet has filled "multiple levels at the squadron, including cadet commander", is still active in the squadron thru CAC, and acts at the group and wing level; plus he still attends most meetings.  I guess I have a different definition of "active participation".   If I were the cadet, and this was the whole picture, I would move this up the chain. 

[ALORD]

What he said ^!

[jeders]

If I were the cadet, and this was the whole picture, I would move this up the chain.

While I agree wholeheartedly with this statement, the problem is that we aren't this cadet and this likely isn't the whole story.

[Tim Day]

My recommendation is to schedule an appointment with your CC. If you're not the CDC, enlist his or her help. Before the appointment, grab a copy of CAPR 52-16 and highlight the requirements for promotion. Then, write down in summary form how the cadet has met each requirement, including the requirement for "active participation".

Start with an understanding of the CC's position: weekly meeting attendance is one valid way to define active participation. Suggest that there are other ways this can be defined. Has the cadet been in communication with the CDC about his lack of attendance or does he just not show up? How does he participate? You listed a few items that could be included here.

Something like:

Sir,
I agree that active participation is a requirement for promotion. While Cadet Smith has not been able to attend meetings, his absences were due to school commitments and were always communicated in advance with his chain of command, he has remained active as a mentor for junior cadets via email, phone-calls, and text messages, he represents us well at CAC, he's supported several group and wing activities as staff, and he regularly responds to mission call-outs.

I respectfully recommend in light of his faithful communication with us that these activities be considered "active participation" for purposes of this promotion. I'd be glad to research this with our Wing Director of Cadet Programs if you'd like any supporting information on what can be considered active participation.

Respectfully,

Lt GoodStaffOfficer

CC's are busy, and without thorough staff work may make decisions based on the letter of the regulation or their best judgment. They make mistakes. It's our job as staff officers to make it as easy as possible for them to make decisions based on the CAPRs.

[Mitchell 1969]

I also go by the policy that "anything school related is excused". The only thing that ask is let me know. If we do not allow our Cadets to have balance, we will lose them quickly.

Balance, but not abuse.


Some kids always have something on a meeting night. Instead of giving them a pass, perhaps a conversation regarding priorities/membership are in order.

I was one of those "kids." When I was 19, I had a class that met on Wednesday nights - Squadrin meeting night. The class wasn't available any other time. I talked to the Squadron Commander, who said "Sorry, but if you can't make it to meetings, then you can't advance."

No, not really.

He was a realistic Squadron Commander. He simply said "Well, drop by when you can, try to keep up with weekend activities. And I'll talk to Captain Whatshisname at Squadron XX - maybe you can drop in there one Tuesday per month and teach a class."

He was a mensch. CAP would be well served by having a few more mensch officers.

[Mitchell 1969]

From your own unit website http://oswegocap.org/cadet-programs/for-teens/:

Quote:

"What are the requirements
To become a Civil Air Patrol cadet, you must:
◾Be at least 12 years old and not yet 19.
◾Be a U.S. citizen or permanent resident (waivers available)
◾Be willing to attend most Wednesday evening training meetings at the Oswego County Airport
◾Be willing to properly wear Air Force uniforms with CAP cadet insignia, including adhering to the Air Force's standards for haircuts and shaving.
◾Pay annual dues of $32, plus a one-time uniform accessory fee of about $50".  [emphasis added, "most"].


By my math, approximately 65% attendance meets the definition of "most".  If he hasn't, he might want to point out the local level inconsistency... after which the ball is in the cadets hands if he wishes to take it further.

V/R
Spam

I hate it when local people make stuff up, engrave it in stone and claim it is policy instead of local desire.

(What's he going to do with the 18 year old cadet who can't meet the "requirement" to wear the USAF type uniform?)

Doesn't take a lawyer to prove that 65% constitutes "most" if something. A fourth grader in math class can prove it.