Go Where There is No Danger

[NIN]

Grizzly bear droppings have little bells in it and smell like pepper.

@#$%. I read that straight and then snarfed coffee out my nose.

[THRAWN]

Grizzly bear droppings have little bells in it and smell like pepper.

@#$%. I read that straight and then snarfed coffee out my nose.

Yeah, kinda sneaks up on you...

[ALORD]

I just don't think we should let Deer with bad hearts drive cars while drinking...Think of how many lives could be saved!  As far as snake bites go, in my years spent in Emergency Medicine, I don't recall a single case that did not involve a drunken man ( No women, strangely enough) trying to handle or otherwise antagonize one of our tasty Pacific Rattle snakes. Darwin at work. I would think in Alabama, any wildlife that flies, walks, or creepeth upon the earth would steer clear of Alabamans', who no doubt have a recipe for any of God's creatures they may come across, usually involving deep-frying, breading, bacon, and other wholesome and nutritious food preparations. I miss the South sometimes.... I am surprised that food allergies (i.e, peanuts) did not even have as many fatalities as wolf attacks. This makes my case to my wife for a pet wolf seem like a much more presentable deal!

Since this has always been a point of contention for me, let us put this into perspective shall we?

Note:  These numbers come from a variety of different sources, but most sources cited the CDC. 

A per year average of fatal "attacks" for the US:
Heart Disease:  611,000
Auto Accidents:  33,000
Lightning: 49

Mosquitos:  Unknown number people in the US, but over 4 million in the world
Ticks:  Unknown but <1000--Lyme was an average of 8 and RMSF an average of 8 in the US.  Other tick borne diseases, such as anaplasma, powassan, TBE, etc are unavailable.

Deer:  130 (mostly due to auto)
Bee, Wasps, Hornets:  53-58
Dogs:  28-31
Horse:  20
Cattle: >20
Venomous spiders (Black widow, Brown Recluse):  7
Rattlesnakes:  6 (another source says these are usually alcohol related)
Scorpions:  0.5
Centipedes:  0.5
Sharks:  1
Alligators:  1
Mountain lions:  1
Black Bears:  1
Grizzly Bears:  1 --27 fatal incidences in North America with 29 deaths in all of 2000s.  Half in the US and the other half in Canada.  17 black bears; 10 grizzlies
Wolf:  0 --no fatal wild attacks in the US since 1888, but a few children from pet wolves
Alligator:  <1

[The Infamous Meerkat]

Hahaha, maybe it will pass her review this time with the facts in evidence? 

Since this has always been a point of contention for me, let us put this into perspective shall we?

Note:  These numbers come from a variety of different sources, but most sources cited the CDC. 

A per year average of fatal "attacks" for the US:
Heart Disease:  611,000
Auto Accidents:  33,000
Lightning: 49

Mosquitos:  Unknown number people in the US, but over 4 million in the world
Ticks:  Unknown but <1000--Lyme was an average of 8 and RMSF an average of 8 in the US.  Other tick borne diseases, such as anaplasma, powassan, TBE, etc are unavailable.

Deer:  130 (mostly due to auto)
Bee, Wasps, Hornets:  53-58
Dogs:  28-31
Horse:  20
Cattle: >20
Venomous spiders (Black widow, Brown Recluse):  7
Rattlesnakes:  6 (another source says these are usually alcohol related)
Scorpions:  0.5
Centipedes:  0.5
Sharks:  1
Alligators:  1
Mountain lions:  1
Black Bears:  1
Grizzly Bears:  1 --27 fatal incidences in North America with 29 deaths in all of 2000s.  Half in the US and the other half in Canada.  17 black bears; 10 grizzlies
Wolf:  0 --no fatal wild attacks in the US since 1888, but a few children from pet wolves
Alligator:  <1

I find it entertaining that they quote "half of a death" attributed to alligators, scorpions, and centipedes... I would be curious to read the factors at play in those cases. Did one person get a single bite from all three that caused death from blood loss and poisoning at the same time?   
There may be less deaths attributed to all of these than car accidents, but that doesn't mean I want any of them to happen to me. I apply an amount of ORM to everything I do sub-consciously, and my control for entering known territories of deadly animals is to bring a weapon. If you think I'm unreasonable, that is your opinion, and your right.

Unfortunately CAP doesn't allow that control, so while I accept that reality I'm forced to hope a less lethal option will be up to the task. I can think of a recent Wolf attack in Idaho from 2011 that was thwarted by a grandmother, because she carried a weapon capable of leveling the playing field between her and the wolf. I was always told in the Marine Corps "Don't be the One"... I apply that to this situation as well!

It always amazes me when people quote the stats of non-violent deaths as a reason not to attempt mitigation of those that are violent... but that wasn't what you were trying to do, right?   :angel: 

Also, just a spot check of the wolf kill numbers proves to be misleading, I find 2005 in Saskatchewan, Canada and 2010 in Chignik Lake, Alaska of predatory human kills...

Lies, [darn]ed lies, and... well, you know...

[SarDragon]

I find it entertaining that they quote "half of a death" attributed to alligators, scorpions, and centipedes... I would be curious to read the factors at play in those cases. Did one person get a single bite from all three that caused death from blood loss and poisoning at the same time?

The original post of the stats did say: A per year average of fatal "attacks" for the US:.

Since the sampling period was not stated, but assumed to be >2 years, the numbers <1 do make sense.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

Noticed after posting...

[LSThiker]

As SarDragon has pointed out it was more than two years. The time period depends on the animal. Most were 10-20 years. Although I think the bears and mountain lions go back to the early 1900s.

The stats did not lie about the wolf. Rather that was my own information being out of date. I remember reading that from an article in 2009-2010. So even if we take her one death in Alaska and be bold to add the Canada and be even more bold to tack on 2 more for extra precaution, that would put the average number of fatal wolf attacks from 1888 to ~0.03 per year. So basically still 0. 

Sure we can put up as much ancedotal evidence that we want to demonstrate a minor point. Nevertheless, it does negate the fact that fatal animal attacks are rare. Even attacks in general are not as common as people think.  When you factor in other mitigations that are already recommende the ORM becomes extremely small. This is essentially what a number of national parks have done.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

I'm sure that those people and their families wouldn't write off their "meaningless" deaths as easily as you have. Regardless of how frequent they happen, I'd rather be prepared and go home to my family at the event if it's all the same to you... Statistics don't change the fact that the events happen, and I happen to live in one of the places they do.

I'm going to use every available means of defense for my life and others, what's your plan?

[LSThiker]

I'm sure that those people and their families wouldn't write off their "meaningless" deaths as easily as you have. Regardless of how frequent they happen, I'd rather be prepared and go home to my family at the event if it's all the same to you... Statistics don't change the fact that the events happen, and I happen to live in one of the places they do.

Not to keep beating the dead horse (pun intended):

I am not one to write off the meaningless death of an animal quite as easily as you have.  The problem with claiming meaningless or meaningful is a rather subjective claim that requires a point of view.  From the animal's perspective, their (the humans in this case) deaths are meaningful.  For it allowed the animal to protect their young so they can grow to become adults or it allowed the animal to survive one more day and ultimately continue the circle of life.  From a human point of view, their deaths may or may not be meaningless.  That is, as you claim that I view their deaths as a certain degree of meaningless (false, I might add).  Or a person might see their deaths as meaningful.  I might also point out that "meaningless" deaths happens everyday, but that does not mean it was a meaningless life.  But every death is meaningful for only to those that look for it.  However, please do not confuse a meaningless with a senseless death.

I'm going to use every available means of defense for my life and others, what's your plan?

My plan has been the same for all of thousands of miles I have walked in predator-held territory.  It was the same when I snapped a photo of a grizzly bear that "popped" up about 20 yards away (my mistake).  It was the same when I encountered the mountain lion in Colorado, wild boar and alligator in Texas, and black bear in Wyoming. 

[AirDX]

A per year average of fatal "attacks" for the US:
Heart Disease:  611,000

CAP should encourage firearms and ban cheeseburgers.

[LSThiker]

A per year average of fatal "attacks" for the US:
Heart Disease:  611,000

CAP should encourage firearms and ban cheeseburgers.

Or CAP could ban donuts and watch the revolution happen

[Luis R. Ramos]

Or CAP could ban flights and watch the stress go down...

[Garibaldi]

A per year average of fatal "attacks" for the US:
Heart Disease:  611,000

CAP should encourage firearms and ban cheeseburgers.

Or CAP could ban donuts and watch the revolution happen

HERESY!!!!! BURN HIM!!!!! WITH FIRE!!!!!

[Johnny Yuma]

To be honest, I'm more concerned about not being armed because of the 2 legged critters we all live around than I am the 4 legged ones myself, but as always YMMV.