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Author Topic: Largest Fire Currently Burning in the US  (Read 6059 times)
Гугл переводчик
Forum Regular

Posts: 183
Unit: Metric

« on: August 15, 2015, 02:12:03 PM »

http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/4475/

At 277,278 Acres, and the weather is not helping the firefighters at all.
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Former C/Maj., CAP
1st Lt., CAP
A1C, USAF                                           

Live2Learn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 625

« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2015, 03:30:21 PM »

A friend just sent me an image of a large fire (Stickpin, burning west of Colville WA) that was roaring DOWNHILL with a huge black plume above.  He took the image at 3000 AGL during a recon of the fire before air resources (tankers, lead planes, air attack platforms) could arrive.  From the image it looks like the fire grew from a spot to a monster in about a very short time...  Not near enough time for either tankers or ground pounders to hit the scene... By the time he arrived it was burning way too hot for either aerial or ground resources to be effective.  I flew the area a few days prior when winds aloft were strong.  It was pretty rough flying.  I expect we'll have quite a few more acres burned this season.  http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/4487/#
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 03:34:20 PM by Live2Learn » Logged
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,103

« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2015, 04:17:31 PM »

Fires usually don't like burning downhill unless there's a wind pushing it.
They much prefer burning uphill since heat rises.
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Гугл переводчик
Forum Regular

Posts: 183
Unit: Metric

« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2015, 04:28:05 PM »

I was wondering if CAP could do anything in this type of situation... The Red Cross has been called and they are helping with relief. The Feds even say their resources are stretched thin. There haven't been many mandatory evacuations yet, but they are on the way.
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Former C/Maj., CAP
1st Lt., CAP
A1C, USAF                                           

Live2Learn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 625

« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2015, 08:27:32 PM »

Fires usually don't like burning downhill unless there's a wind pushing it.
They much prefer burning uphill since heat rises.

True.  Rolling debris on steep hills is another common mechanism for downhill movement of fire.  As is spotting in advance of the flame front.  The winds were really strong over the Stickpin Fire so all three were in play (wind pushing the flame front, spotting in advance of the flame front, and rolling debris).
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 08:46:37 PM by Live2Learn » Logged
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,103

« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2015, 08:50:27 PM »

I was wondering if CAP could do anything in this type of situation... The Red Cross has been called and they are helping with relief. The Feds even say their resources are stretched thin. There haven't been many mandatory evacuations yet, but they are on the way.

Best thing CAP can do is stay out of the way.   
Assisting the Red Cross in running the Evacuation Centers is about the only job most CAP members can do, if the Red Cross needs and wants the help.
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Live2Learn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 625

« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2015, 08:53:23 PM »

I was wondering if CAP could do anything in this type of situation...

The fire fighting agencies have fairly strict criteria for anyone who pilots recon aircraft.  Some CAP pilots would meet them, quite a few (maybe most) would not.  WAWG is in discussion with some agencies to see whether a fit might be possible.  Not many CAP members have wildland fire experience, so I suppose if the planes and pilot issues can be resolved then the observers and command module issues can be agency personnel.  I really doubt CAP could participate in any way during actual suppression ops, other than as a platform for air attack. 

About 10 years ago CAP in Oklahoma flew high elevation missions that were a cross between 'high bird' and mission recon.  I don't know how the planes were crewed. Their purpose was to spot smoke columns so agency air resources could quickly mobilize.  Oklahoma is pretty flat, so curve of the earth was the limiting factor to visibility.  That and clouds.  In the West it's a lot more like mountain flying, and often we descend below 1000' to capture GPS coordinates of small fires.  I don't think CAP can really do the mission in Idaho very well.  I never saw the AAR for the Oklahoma effort, but it seemed like it was working under the burning conditions that existed at the time (it was January, they were in a drought, high winds were common, nearly all of the fires were in tall dry grass, and all of the fires were human caused).  A bit different from western conditions.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 08:59:36 PM by Live2Learn » Logged
Holding Pattern
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,246
Unit: Worry

« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2015, 11:50:56 PM »


Best thing CAP can do is stay out of the way.

What can we do to prepare to be more useful than staying out of the way for the next fire?
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,342
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2015, 01:19:56 AM »


Best thing CAP can do is stay out of the way.

What can we do to prepare to be more useful than staying out of the way for the next fire?

Train folks to be aerial photographers. Get the classroom training out of the way, and then do SAREXs in that arena. We've done several down here in CAWG over the last couple of years. You can practice the processing with any old pictures. That's the most tedious part of the job, and the one most easily screwed up.

Slow and low assessment is something we can be well suited to do. The other air assets either fly too fast (fixed wing planes), or they stir up debris, and distort the view(s) (helos).
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 01:24:43 AM by SarDragon » Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,103

« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2015, 01:48:13 AM »


Best thing CAP can do is stay out of the way.

What can we do to prepare to be more useful than staying out of the way for the next fire?

Train folks to be aerial photographers. Get the classroom training out of the way, and then do SAREXs in that arena. We've done several down here in CAWG over the last couple of years. You can practice the processing with any old pictures. That's the most tedious part of the job, and the one most easily screwed up.

Slow and low assessment is something we can be well suited to do. The other air assets either fly too fast (fixed wing planes), or they stir up debris, and distort the view(s) (helos).

Now, convince Cal OES and the Interagency Fire Coordination Center that we can actually do the job. We're a big unknown to them.
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,547
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2015, 02:27:27 AM »

The folks I spoke to from CALEMA and local OES were very familiar with us.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,342
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2015, 02:37:03 AM »


Best thing CAP can do is stay out of the way.

What can we do to prepare to be more useful than staying out of the way for the next fire?

Train folks to be aerial photographers. Get the classroom training out of the way, and then do SAREXs in that arena. We've done several down here in CAWG over the last couple of years. You can practice the processing with any old pictures. That's the most tedious part of the job, and the one most easily screwed up.

Slow and low assessment is something we can be well suited to do. The other air assets either fly too fast (fixed wing planes), or they stir up debris, and distort the view(s) (helos).

Now, convince Cal OES and the Interagency Fire Coordination Center that we can actually do the job. We're a big unknown to them.

We did a 3-day mission back in '07 for the fires down here in SD County, and they were thrilled with the product.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,103

« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2015, 11:25:28 AM »

The folks I spoke to from CALEMA and local OES were very familiar with us.

And that was how long ago?   

CALEMA doesn't exist anymore, they went back to their old name when Gov Brown took over several years ago.
And the Interagency Fire Coordination Center up in Boise, who runs the Federal response, doesn't know much about our current capabilities.
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,547
Unit: Classified

« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2015, 11:48:02 AM »

The folks I spoke to from CALEMA and local OES were very familiar with us.

And that was how long ago?   

CALEMA doesn't exist anymore, they went back to their old name when Gov Brown took over several years ago.
And the Interagency Fire Coordination Center up in Boise, who runs the Federal response, doesn't know much about our current capabilities.

2012.
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KatCAP
Recruit

Posts: 12

« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2015, 08:33:40 AM »

See http://www.captalk.net/index.php?topic=20345.0
Declining Use of Ground Teams
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Theodore
Recruit

Posts: 47

« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2016, 02:40:47 PM »

I say we should make a movement to allow older cadets to assist on the fire lines. 16 and up? And the younger cadets operate the radios, help with relief, etc.
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THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,861

« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2016, 02:57:16 PM »

I say we should make a movement to allow older cadets to assist on the fire lines. 16 and up? And the younger cadets operate the radios, help with relief, etc.

You're daft. Fighting these big fires is no easy or even remotely "safe" task. Want to fight fires? Plenty of outfits that you can join. CAP ain't one of them...
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Theodore
Recruit

Posts: 47

« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2016, 03:22:02 PM »

People asked for suggestions, Im giving them to you. Im not daft. Too Gung-Ho, maybe. But I wanna help people. What good would it be to have every single CAP qualification, but not use any of them?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 03:28:16 PM by Theodore » Logged
Theodore
Recruit

Posts: 47

« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2016, 03:25:56 PM »

What if our aircraft did water drops?
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Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,621

« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2016, 03:32:07 PM »

How much of a fire would the equivalent of a spit put out? I guess .0000000000000000000001...

 ???

A spit because that is how much water a Cessna could carry... How much water would the other airplane, the GA8, be able to carry?


 ::)


Remember that roughly, one liter of water=2 pounds! Not exactly but you can use that as a rough estimation...
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 03:35:26 PM by Luis R. Ramos » Logged

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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: Largest Fire Currently Burning in the US
 


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