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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Prior Mitchell to 2nd LT as a Senior - 6 month wait?
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xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 678

« on: July 18, 2015, 02:35:08 PM »

Hey guys.  I just rejoined after being gone for about 21 years, I earned the Mitchell so I'm eligible for 2Lt. After completing Level 1 requirements and CPT, do I still have to wait the 6 months as a SM before promoting to 2Lt or is 2Lt automatic once level 1 is complete?  The regs didn't make this clear.  If I still have to wait I don't see any advantage as the regular requirements are:

Age 21 or older
Start a specialty track
6 months time in grade of SM
Attend meetings and activities
No PT is required but must perform duties in professional and safe manner that is appropriate of a CAP Officer
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MSG Mac
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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2015, 02:40:28 PM »

No you don't, but if the Mitchell is not in E-Services you should include documentation with the CAPF 2
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
xray328
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Posts: 678

« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2015, 04:23:44 PM »

Well that's good to hear.  I was really surprised they still had all my info, Mitchell, Encampments, and O-Flights were all listed, even got my original member number.
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EMT-83
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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2015, 06:04:39 PM »

After a 21 year absence, what value do you bring to the program that justifies an instant promotion?
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xray328
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Posts: 678

« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2015, 06:13:48 PM »

Me specifically or the average Joe Schmoe guy that had a 21 year gap?

In my case I was active with my unit for 4 years, as well as being in AFJROTC all four years, then active duty for 7 years.  I think there's value in that, especially on the cadet side, which is the track I'm pursuing. My thought is that the 6 month gap isn't really needed because I'm pretty familiar with the program.  Besides, that's an HQ decision.  The regs say that a Mitchell cadet joins as a 2Lt, if they put a time limit on that I'd certainly understand.   

If it's the average Mitchell cadet that was in for a couple years and got out and then returned 21 years later, probably none.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 06:17:04 PM by xray328 » Report to moderator   Logged
SarDragon
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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2015, 07:19:15 PM »

You also need to keep this in mind:

3-7. Former Members. A former member may be reinstated to the same grade held prior to voluntary membership termination, provided he or she qualifies for that grade under current criteria (including applicable professional development criteria). A recommendation for such reinstatement is neither automatic nor mandatory. If approved, the appointment will not be
retroactive and the date of grade will be the date validated by National Headquarters upon reinstatement.


Emphasis mine. This includes all the new Level I stuff, completion of which can take several weeks, depending on unit and personal schedules.

Relax, sit back and enjoy the new journey through Level I, and remember that there's no paycheck involved.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
xray328
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Posts: 678

« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2015, 07:37:45 PM »

Level 1 takes several weeks?

Requirements
This orientation course consists of five (5) requirements:
(1) Read the content for each lesson
(2) Agree to a Nondiscrimination Policy
(3) Pass the comprehensive quiz
(4) Conduct a “Summary Conversation”
(5) Complete the Survey
You must complete all five (5) requirements to receive your Level 1 achievement.
Individuals in the following duty positions can perform the “Summary Conversation” (Step 4) and input the completion of that conversation in the Learning Management System. You will need to set up an appointment with one of the individuals below to complete the conversation.  You should contact your Professional Development Officer if you need assistance in setting the appointment.
- Commander
- Vice Commander
- DCS, Professional Development
- Deputy Commander
- Deputy Commander for Seniors
- Director of Professional Development
- Professional Development Officer
The lessons should take you no more than 10 – 15 minutes each.  The comprehensive quiz is a 35 question quiz but there is no time limit and is open book.  The passing score for the quiz is 80%.
The course can easily be completed in 2 - 3 hours.

Not arguing with you of course, just wondering if I'm missing some material I need to complete Level 1?

I'm waiting for number 4 at this point, then on to Cadet Protection.  I have my General ES done and am working on my ICUT as well. 

Does 3-7 apply since I'm not asking to be reinstated at my prior rank and only requesting promotion to 2Lt after completing the required level 1 material per the prior Mitchell cadet guidelines?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 07:45:06 PM by xray328 » Report to moderator   Logged
MacGruff
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« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2015, 08:02:21 PM »

The way I read the regulation that pertains to this, (CAPR35-5) the 6 month wait time is NOT required.

As a former cadet, you qualify under section 3-6 for a 2nd Lieutenant grade. The only requirements associated with this are that you are over 21 (and with a 21 year gap, chances are you are over 21 years of age!); and you do have to do the cadet protection and OpSec portions of Level 1 (Not sure what that translates to with the new Level 1 that just started...).

The procedure to follow is described in section 1-8 and essentially requires a paper CAPF 2 to be signed by your squadron commander and sent in to NHQ. Since the Squadron Commander is the approving authority for a 2nd Lt grade, I would keep one copy of his signed form in your personnel file, and email an electronic version to the email address given in the regulation. I suggest you get and keep a copy of the signed form for your personal file.

I have recently done exactly this for a cadet who aged out (reached 21 Years old) of the cadet program, and since they were a Spaatz, they went to Captain. Confirmation in e-services showed up within the week.

Good luck,
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xray328
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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2015, 08:08:37 PM »

Perfect, thank you sir.

Opsec is the number one thing I did, everytime I logged into eservices it kept bugging me to do it. :)

Cadet protection can't be done until we have this "Summary Conversation".  Kids joined back in May so I've been attending meetings as well and Cadet Protection was the topic of the night for several of those, so hopefully that shouldn't be an issue.

In regards to Cadet protection, we were discussing how a background check is a one time thing.  We got to talking about how they should check folks every few years, a member could join and get convicted of whatever and if the squadron never heard about it be allowed to continue working with cadets. 
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SarDragon
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« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2015, 03:30:46 AM »

Level 1 takes several weeks?
I said that completing Level I can take several weeks. Level I consists of the Orientation Course, CPPT, a safety segment, the EO segment, and the Summary Conversation. My point here is that you should be more concerned with learning the material, which has changed a bit in your absence, instead of having a "how fast can I do this?" attitude.

Quote
Does 3-7 apply since I'm not asking to be reinstated at my prior rank and only requesting promotion to 2Lt after completing the required level 1 material per the prior Mitchell cadet guidelines?
I'm guessing that NHQ will treat this more as a reinstatement than a Mitchell promotion, since you already used that in the first place the first time around, didn't you?

Nevertheless, relax and enjoy the ride. Some day you might be giving Summary Conversations.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
xray328
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Posts: 678

« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2015, 03:40:35 AM »

Good advice, thank you sir. 

Not sure I understand your last statement though. "First place the first time around"? I left CAP as a C/1Lt in 1994, I haven't been a member since.  I rejoined this month as a Senior Member.
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PHall
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« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2015, 03:44:42 AM »

Good advice, thank you sir. 

Not sure I understand your last statement though. "First place the first time around"? I left CAP as a C/1Lt in 1994, I haven't been a member since.  I rejoined this month as a Senior Member.


What's the hurry?  Everything you can do as a 1st Lt you can do as a S/M.
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xray328
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« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2015, 03:47:14 AM »

There isn't any hurry really. I just want to get started. Kids are active in the squadron and joined two months before me so I've been going to weekly meetings since April.

Sorry, replied before you edited...

It's not that really, I just figured if I'm supposed to be a 2Lt why not start out there. I've also got a cadet function coming up that requires BDUs so I just thought I'd do it all at once.

Sorry, I guess It seemed like it was going to be an easy kinda thing, you get your Mitchell, you start out at 2Lt, easy schmeasy. Not that this is difficult, I just thought it was done more often to where it was a cut and dry process.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 04:00:47 AM by xray328 » Report to moderator   Logged
jdh
Forum Regular

Posts: 129

« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2015, 04:51:46 AM »

I just went through a similar situation, I had a 3.5 year gap since my last time in as a SR member there was a 6 year gap from Cadet to SR the first time (active duty) so not as long as yours. The auto promotion only happens if there is less than a 2 year gap in service. If the gap is longer than two years it is at the discretion of the CC to submit the form 2.

CAPR 35-5 CORRECTED COPY 11 AUGUST 2014 13
3-6. Former CAP Cadets. Upon reaching age 21, former CAP cadets who reached certain
levels of achievement in the CAP cadet program are eligible for appointment to the officer
grades outlined in figure 4. (See figure 8 for grades authorized former cadets under age 21).
NOTE: These members are exempt from the foundations portion of Level I of the Professional
Development Program provided they have less than a 2-year membership break prior to
assuming active member status. The CPPT and OPSEC portions must be completed prior to any
promotion action.


3-7. Former Members. A former member may be reinstated to the same grade held prior to
voluntary membership termination, provided he or she qualifies for that grade under current
criteria (including applicable professional development criteria). A recommendation for such
reinstatement is neither automatic nor mandatory. If approved, the appointment will not be
retroactive and the date of grade will be the date validated by National Headquarters upon
reinstatement.
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PHall
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« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2015, 04:56:40 AM »

If I was the Squadron Commander you would have to present a pretty good case to give you a quick promotion after a 21 year break.
Basically, how will the squadron benefit from you being a 2d Lt right now?
So make your case.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2015, 06:00:18 AM »

Advanced grade is not automatic based on achievements. The CC has to eiher recommend you and or approve you for it to happen and that is entirely on his/her discretion.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2015, 06:23:40 AM »

Good advice, thank you sir. 

Not sure I understand your last statement though. "First place the first time around"? I left CAP as a C/1Lt in 1994, I haven't been a member since.  I rejoined this month as a Senior Member.
OK, I confused myself by thinking you were looking for a reinstatement.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
xray328
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Posts: 678

« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2015, 01:22:54 PM »


If I was the Squadron Commander you would have to present a pretty good case to give you a quick promotion after a 21 year break.
Basically, how will the squadron benefit from you being a 2d Lt right now?
So make your case.

I'll let my squadron commander make that decision. I'm not opening myself up to online judgement as to wether I deserve it or not.  No disrespect intended, but after yesterday's attack I've just had enough of that sort of thing, thanks.
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shuman14
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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2015, 01:50:20 PM »

What rank were you when you came off Active Duty? I thought there was a way to get an advanced promotion based off of your Military rank?

Or, if you were an NCO, maybe the CAP NCO Corps is an option for you that you might like to explore.
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Joseph J. Clune
Lieutenant Colonel, Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
xray328
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 678

« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2015, 02:38:33 PM »

I think there is but its for officers, I was a SSgt.

I'll take a look at the NCO options  as well, thank you.

Honestly the advanced promotion really isn't that big of a deal. I guess I didn't understand it, I just had always thought if you had your Mitchell you were a 2Lt if you became a senior.

I don't want to seem like someone asking for something that people feel I don't deserve and then have to justify why I think I do. Sorta ruins the spirit of the whole thing. I'd rather be recognized as deserving it instead of coming up with the reasons that I do.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 02:45:53 PM by xray328 » Report to moderator   Logged
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Prior Mitchell to 2nd LT as a Senior - 6 month wait?
 


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