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RiverAux
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« on: April 24, 2007, 11:56:51 PM »

For as long as CAP has been around we have used a squadron-based membership model in which members are assigned to a unit in a particular town.  This puts a major crimp in recruiting new members since most folks are only going to drive a certain distance to join a unit.  If the nearest unit is further than they're willing to drive, they don't join CAP. 

Of course, it is theoretically possible for a CAP unit to be formed in just about any town and during WWII you saw them in many, many more towns that you do today.  However, as discussed in many other threads it is difficult to start and maintain new squadrons and there is only a limited amount of support that CAP can provide to new units (planes, vans, laptops, etc.). 

Now, Iowa has tried to address the problem of getting people involved who are not near an existing unit by creating the "All Iowa Squadron" to which anyone can belong and can remain active just by attending their monthly drills.  While related, this isn't what I want to talk about (See the Iowa thread) since these folks are still basically participating in the standard CAP program, just on a different schedule. 

What I'm wondering is if it is possible to recruit people in really isolated situations where no real participation with a local unit is possible, and have those people perform real "missions" in line with CAP objectives.  What could such people do that would help CAP out?  How would they be handled? 

I can see a couple of potential activities that such CAP members could perform.

1.  The primary one would be Aerospace Education --  They could be used to expand our presence by bringing AE-related activities into their local classrooms.  This would be an expansion of the Aerospace Education Member program, which is really just geared at teachers.  This would be more for local pilots and other aviation participants and they would be full-fledged CAP members. 

2.  Serve as liaison with local emergency management authorities.  There are way more county sheriffs and civil authorities in non-CAP locations than in places near CAP units and it just isn't possible to maintain a close relationship with all of them.  Having a CAP member in each county tasked with keeping up with these folks could be extremely helpful. 

4.  Serve as liaison with local airports.  Maintain relationships with FBOs, put CAP flyers/posters out at the airport just to keep our name out there and not primarily for recruiting.  Possibly help scout and/or set up alternate mission base sites.

5.  Communications.  Help keep an eye on CAP repeaters and perhaps serve as a Comm relay when missions are in the area. 

6.  Serve as sort of an informal CAP Reserve system.  Those that wanted could get applicable ES training and maintain their qualifications just like everybody else, but would not be primary mission resources and would mostly be called on to help on large scale or lengthy missions when our "front line" gets stretched thin.  Most likely they would be in lower level mission ratings such as radio, mission staff assistants, and maybe Scanners.

7.  They could assist AF recruiters by putting out AF posters and flyers at schools and other likely locations.  I don't see them setting up recruiting booths, but could help augment AF recruiting activities. 

Any other potential missions that an isolated CAP member could do on their own? 

Administratively, we could use the "All Iowa Squadron" concept and organize a squadron just for these sorts of folks, but which would have an active CAP member in charge to handle all the administrative stuff that would be involved.  Another option might be to attach some of them to the Wing staff.  I don't think it would be good to attach them to the nearest local squadron since they won't really be interacting with them and they would be serving wing-wide, rather than squadron needs.  I think the squadron would tend to forget about them. 

I do think there would need to be some sort of formal reporting system to keep track of what they're doing out there.  After all, if any of these folks weren't actually doing any CAP work, we would want to know it and get them out.  Also, we would want to make sure that they were serving us in a positive fashion, especially those doing liaison work. 

Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 12:04:36 AM by RiverAux » Report to moderator   Logged
Major Carrales
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2007, 02:55:18 PM »

My view of CAP has always been, I am a member of Your Squadron and you are a Member of mine.  The idea of a UNITED CAP where we all desire every unit to advance because what is good for ONE of us, is GOOD for all of us.

That being said, Squadrons should be "hubs" of CAP activity.  Some with custodianship of Aircraft and others as proximate  "satellite" squadrons that receive training in conjunction with the "Hub Squadron."

Custodianship of an aircraft should come with the obligation to provide training/O-Flights/proficiency to proximate units; not merely to develop a "Flying Club" in one area and "shut out" others.

I mention this because that is how I have seen some squadrons operate.

As for the main part of the issue, I think the "Flight" is an underutilized unit level in CAP.

In Texas, for example, some Groups are larger than a lot of Wings.  Thus, I can see a situation where a Urban Area squadron would serve as a MINI-group to three or so units.  As present, we are "budding" a flight out of Corpus Christi to see if we can develop a unit in Kingsville, Texas.  Any newly chartered Kingsville Unit would  work closely Corpus Christi Squadron maybe even as one. Other flights could be formed in other neighboring cities and eventually become FLYING Squadrons even if they had no custody of an aircraft.

Imagine that..."flying squadrons" that would actually grow instead of die from the lack of an aircraft.

You Iowa guys...please tell me more about the CAP "station?"
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CadetProgramGuy
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2007, 03:41:53 PM »

..........cut.........

You Iowa guys...please tell me more about the CAP "station?"

a CAP station is an area of the state that only has two or three members.  Not enough for a flight in normal cases.

What this allows us to do is have a rapid response in a particular area of the state, while backup is on the way.  Also with a CAP station, we can have a foot into EMA, and local law enforcement is dealing with local personel.  Last of all in a station there will be 24/7 comms capability.

The members who are in the CAP station are assiged to the All Iowa Squadron until there is enough interest to charter a flight or squadron where the station is.
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LTC_Gadget
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2007, 03:47:51 PM »

Some with custodianship of Aircraft and others as proximate  "satellite" squadrons that receive training in conjunction with the "Hub Squadron."

Custodianship of an aircraft should come with the obligation to provide training/O-Flights/proficiency to proximate units; not merely to develop a "Flying Club" in one area and "shut out" others.

I mention this because that is how I have seen some squadrons operate.

I agree with all that you said. I, too have seen too many examples of the 'haves' vs the 'have nots;' whether it be aircraft, vehicles, equipment, opportunities, etc., with the 'haves' introducing all sorts of administrative roadblocks to hinder the 'have nots' in trying to get the same opportunities.  Seems like a similar situation was described in a vehicle thread here somewhere.  So much for the idea of one, big happy family, etc.  Seems more like "Nya-na-na-na-na-nah!!" on occasion.  Yeah, that's mature...  :(

V/R,
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John Boyd, LtCol, CAP
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2007, 04:02:39 PM »


a CAP station is an area of the state that only has two or three members.  Not enough for a flight in normal cases.

What this allows us to do is have a rapid response in a particular area of the state, while backup is on the way.  Also with a CAP station, we can have a foot into EMA, and local law enforcement is dealing with local personel.  Last of all in a station there will be 24/7 comms capability.

The members who are in the CAP station are assiged to the All Iowa Squadron until there is enough interest to charter a flight or squadron where the station is.

In that case we have several "CAP stations" or "proto CAP stations" in our area.
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"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
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Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454
CadetProgramGuy
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2007, 04:38:53 PM »


a CAP station is an area of the state that only has two or three members.  Not enough for a flight in normal cases.

What this allows us to do is have a rapid response in a particular area of the state, while backup is on the way.  Also with a CAP station, we can have a foot into EMA, and local law enforcement is dealing with local personel.  Last of all in a station there will be 24/7 comms capability.

The members who are in the CAP station are assiged to the All Iowa Squadron until there is enough interest to charter a flight or squadron where the station is.

In that case we have several "CAP stations" or "proto CAP stations" in our area.

See?!?!  Your transition is already underway......
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2007, 05:02:56 PM »


a CAP station is an area of the state that only has two or three members.  Not enough for a flight in normal cases.

What this allows us to do is have a rapid response in a particular area of the state, while backup is on the way.  Also with a CAP station, we can have a foot into EMA, and local law enforcement is dealing with local personel.  Last of all in a station there will be 24/7 comms capability.

The members who are in the CAP station are assiged to the All Iowa Squadron until there is enough interest to charter a flight or squadron where the station is.

In that case we have several "CAP stations" or "proto CAP stations" in our area.

See?!?!  Your transition is already underway......


Now, witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL CAP  station!
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"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
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Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454
ColonelJack
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« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2007, 05:05:27 PM »

Now, witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL CAP  station!

But ... you can't do that!  Alderaan is a peaceful planet!

Jack
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Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
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« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2007, 05:09:13 PM »

Now, witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL CAP  station!

But ... you can't do that!  Alderaan is a peaceful planet!

Jack

"Maxwell, they're at Maxwell..."
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Jamie Kahler, Capt., CAP
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« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2007, 05:49:45 PM »

All threads point back to the Force.........
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Eagle400
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« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2007, 06:24:15 PM »

a CAP station is an area of the state that only has two or three members.  Not enough for a flight in normal cases.

Reg cite, please. 
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mikeylikey
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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2007, 06:46:42 PM »

I like the idea of CAP stations, but at the same time I don't.  I really don't have a reason for any dislike, but it just strikes me funny.  As soon as I have a legitimate reason for not liking then I will not like them.  Until I have that reason I will continue to like them!
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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2007, 07:01:13 PM »

a CAP station is an area of the state that only has two or three members.  Not enough for a flight in normal cases.

Reg cite, please. 

It's a "new" Iowa Wing thing, you need to read the report.
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Lt Col Al Sayre
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MIKE
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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2007, 07:03:21 PM »

I think a bunch of little units, or members at large is a bad idea.  I personally think having a flight of 8 people is a waste.  What I think should be happening is to have fewer but also larger units that meet less often, but with a longer meeting... Get people to travel further, but make it worth it.

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Mike Johnston
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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2007, 07:12:49 PM »

I think a bunch of little units, or members at large is a bad idea.  I personally think having a flight of 8 people is a waste.  What I think should be happening is to have fewer but also larger units that meet less often, but with a longer meeting... Get people to travel further, but make it worth it.

Don't MT,ID and WY have to deal with issues like this?  Or are all their units clustered around population centers, making this a non-issue?  I wonder about their take on this subject?

V/R,
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John Boyd, LtCol, CAP
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2007, 07:19:57 PM »

I like the idea of CAP stations, but at the same time I don't.  I really don't have a reason for any dislike, but it just strikes me funny.  As soon as I have a legitimate reason for not liking then I will not like them.  Until I have that reason I will continue to like them!

In Texas many unit are separated by upwards  of 100 miles, if three or four CAP officers live in the city that is 50-70 miles from the main unit, what good is it to have them drive to the unit to get resources for their missions?

If an ELT goes off at Kleberg Co Airport (some 45-50 kiles from Corpus Christi) or in Oilton, Texas (some 120 miles away)...or should a crop duster crash near Freer, Texas (100 miles from CC) and several CAP Officers Live in Kingsville (40 Miles from CC), Premont (70 miles from CC) or even Hebrronville, Texas (100 miles from CC) does it not make since to have a small unit with resources in the field to handle it rather than waiting the hour to muster and hour to deploy ground resources?

I think CAP stations are a good idea.  I, however, do not think they should be autonomous.  Major trainings should always happen at the unit, but the scope of some areas makes it unwieldy to operate from a mere squadron.

I also think that CAP stations, like the CADET FLIGHT we are developing in Kingsville, Texas, should have an ambient goal to eventaully become a Flight or Squadron.  

Some of you think there are already too many units...try coming to South Texas where they are literally Hundreds of miles apart.  I think we need the "orbital squadrons"  that started as CAP Stations, became full flights and then units able to deploy to give the "we can put an ariel platfom over a target in two hours" truth some additional resources.

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Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
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Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454
Major Carrales
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« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2007, 07:33:44 PM »

I think a bunch of little units, or members at large is a bad idea.  I personally think having a flight of 8 people is a waste.  What I think should be happening is to have fewer but also larger units that meet less often, but with a longer meeting... Get people to travel further, but make it worth it.

I have been driving up-wards of an hour and a half to get to my unit for 9 years now and I am the Commander. 

Mike, I hate to disagree but, I think your premise is flawed...at least from where I am sitting and my situation. 

It is based on, in my approximation, that there are strong "mother units" that have resources to "make it work it."  And relatively short distances between units, the most being an hour.  And coverage areas of relatively small scale compared to South Texas.

Now, that is what I think you mean...sheer speculation.  I would be much obliged to read what your actual thoughts are.

Also, where the unit meets is really quite moot.  It is only really an issue when organizing training...the real issue is in the operational ability of the unit.  

CAP Stations and well placed/maintained Flights represent areas from which large scale operations can be commenced in a shorter period of time.  Also, resources can be placed.

For example, if I am in Falfurrias, Texas (with units over two hours away by car and an hour or so by flight-including prep time) and some occurrence goes down at the King Ranch or is an aircraft is lost in the voids of the Lower Coastal Bend/Rio Grande Valley...it would be nice to have a small team ready to respond in 30 minutes (Brooks Co Field) than for all or Corpus Christi or Brownsville to Drive in and set up only after an hour of driving.

MIKE, I feel that CAP needs to be in place and operational at the drop of a hat.   I also think the First Air Force expects it from us.  Smaller units located in the field would give us that edge. 

Now, they should not be autonomous...but rather coordinated elements of their Squadron, or Wing/Group depending on the situation.

 ;D
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Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
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« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2007, 08:36:25 PM »

So what is preventing people from doing all of that anyway with their nearest Sq? You meet with your commander, tell him about your distance and your situation.  Tell him you want to be involved and can commit to coming, say, once per month.  Then commmunicate through e-mail or telephone to stay in touch. With email, and everything being on line, its defintiely possible, and its already being done.  CAP is a paperwork abyss as it is. 

What you are proposing really isnt much different.  Your just calling it a different name.
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2007, 08:38:14 PM »

So what is preventing people from doing all of that anyway with their nearest Sq? You meet with your commander, tell him about your distance and your situation.  Tell him you want to be involved and can commit to coming, say, once per month.  Then commmunicate through e-mail or telephone to stay in touch. With email, and everything being on line, its defintiely possible, and its already being done.  CAP is a paperwork abyss as it is. 

What you are proposing really isnt much different.  Your just calling it a different name.

There is no difference, we are talking about the same thing.  Some, however, seem to think it is a bad idea.
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"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454
RiverAux
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« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2007, 09:09:09 PM »

Folks, can we talk about my proposal rather than Iowa bases?   
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