October 21, 2020, 06:30:01 pm

Hawaii Wing problems

Started by RiverAux, January 21, 2015, 10:47:18 pm

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RiverAux

Looks like Hawaii Wing is falling apart --- well, at least thats what this newspaper article makes it seem like.
Not the sort of publicity you're looking for....

http://thegardenisland.com/news/local/a-civil-war/article_2896ca78-a072-11e4-bff7-bffb7a1a758e.html

Eclipse

January 21, 2015, 11:07:29 pm #1 Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 12:42:47 am by Eclipse
"Kauai members said the trouble began when the state wing started relieving commanders who objected to changes."

Somebody got their shorts in a bunch and decided to air their "concerns" to a local paper.

My money is on one of the people mentioned as "inactive".

I'll also put a nickel on the counter that we'll hear from one of them here, shortly...



JC004

Oy.  What a dreadful article to deal with.  I never thought I'd say this, but I'm glad I'm not in Hawaii. 

A.Member

January 22, 2015, 01:00:10 am #3 Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 01:04:09 am by A.Member
HI failed their CI a couple years ago.  They needed change and, the way I understand it, Col Wong was brought in to clean house.  Don't have any particular insight but seems like he's doing the job.  Change is hard, especially for those that have been in the org for decades and are used to "the way we've always done it."  It's not a popular thing to say but this org isn't for everyone.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Eclipse

I remember seeing that and thinking that seemed odd - you really have to work pretty
hard to fail a CI, even under the old program.



Private Investigator

Kauai has just the one Squadron and with their isolation I am sure they do whatever they want. i.e., They are not likely crossing the "t" and doting the "i".   8)

JacobAnn

"Another issue is the state wing intends to move planes around between the squadrons depending on flight hours, maintenance schedules and pilot training. This upset the commanders most, say volunteers."

Don't most wings do this?

JeffDG

First:  I tend to read just about all press reports with a serious grain of salt.  Reporters tend to get things wrong a lot.  Take for instance the rank of the Wing Commander in the story (and I actually checked, it's not an "acting" thing where he could be a Lt Col)

But this reads like a GOBN got upended when a non-member of the GOBN got Command of the Wing and is making some changes that the GOBN is none too pleased about.

RiverAux

Well, to some extent you're probably right.  But, those membership losses in a single squadron are pretty severe and probably go beyond just the GOBN.  Heck, if you figure that 20% of members aren't active anyway, those might be about the only ones left. 

JeffDG

Not nearly enough info to make a real assessment.  That was a "off the top of my head" impression.

A.Member

^ Agree.  Way too many unknowns but I suspect your initial assessment was correct - GOBN is not happy.  It's good to upset the apple cart from time to time.

To me it's very odd that someone would run (read: whine) to the media with this.  Almost as odd is the fact the media thought this was a story worth publishing, especially with all the gaps in the reporting.  Things must be really slow on Kauai.
"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

NIN

A single squadron on a small island with an airplane. What could possibly go wrong there?

This sounds like much ado about nothing. How many times have we seen this elsewhere, when a squadron that is not much more than a flying club unit get its airplane taken away for some reason, and half the members just quit in a huff because of "their airplane"? I have seen it more than once.

Chances are that the wing commander has very specific marching orders and things to fix. Sometimes, you have to  force people to adhere to the regulations for the first time in years. And when they don't he's applying the consequences.
Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
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Larry Mangum

When a wing averages only 83 hrs a year on their air frames and they have 10 of them, they probably do need to rotate the aircraft around.
Larry Mangum, Lt Col CAP
SWR-SWR-001

bflynn

Quote from: Larry Mangum on January 22, 2015, 02:19:15 pm
When a wing averages only 83 hrs a year on their air frames and they have 10 of them, they probably do need to rotate the aircraft around.


They have 10 squadrons.  I'd say maybe they have too many aircraft.

Hawaii is a very different place.  People don't like things to change, especially if they view the change as detrimental to them.  Both Maui and Kauai planes were recently moved, only Oahu (6 squadrons) and Hawaii (2 squadrons) have airplanes now.   

I don't know, but I'd take a guess that 7 or 8 of the wing's airplanes are on Oahu, an area half the size of Rhode Island.  Seems like a very dense concentration.

AlphaSigOU

HI WG aircraft are tightly integrated into their civil defense system... they're equipped with airborne loudspeakers to warn people about approaching tsunamis.
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

bflynn

Quote from: AlphaSigOU on January 22, 2015, 04:56:16 pm
HI WG aircraft are tightly integrated into their civil defense system... they're equipped with airborne loudspeakers to warn people about approaching tsunamis.


Yes.  I wonder if part of the reason people are upset is because the redistribution of airplanes adds more response time for tsunami warnings.  It's not just flying 90nm from Oahu to Kauai, traffic on Oahu can be outrageous. 

Does this fall into the category "money is tight, we're flying less"?

AlphaSigOU

Traffic on the main freeways (H-1, H-2, H-3) is flat-out murder, especially at rush hour. IIRC some of the aircraft are based at HNL and at Kalaeloa in O'ahu. On receipt of a tsunami advisory crews are dispatched to the field and fly their missions on receipt of a tsunami warning. That's if there's enough time.
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

AirDX

I'm the HNL squadron commander and wing assistant director of operations.  We did indeed fail a CI, however we closed the open items and were fully successful on a re-CI in March 2014.  I was wing director of safety through that process, as well as a few months as wing chief of staff.  So the CI is pretty old news.

There are 4 aircraft nominally based on Oahu, with 5 squadrons on the island, 3 composite, 1 cadet, and 1 senior.  3 of the aircraft belong to me, though one of them has been farmed out to Hilo on the Big Island for nearly a year and a half, as theirs has been in a prolonged engine change.  Maui has had no aircraft as theirs is in extended maintenance, and Kona is the same. 

No aircraft have been moved at this point, other than the one I mentioned above, on loan.  They certainly will be if necessary.  It's hard to get to the magic 200 hours/aircraft with 40% of the fleet NMC for months at a time.

The personnel issues I won't comment on.  We remain fully mission capable, if a little strained by NMC aircraft.  The tsunami warning routes can be covered by other aircraft.  We will typically have 6-10 hours of warning time of a tsunami.  That's plenty of time to launch and fly tsunami route A, recover, refuel and launch to fly tsunami route B.  Some routes, the two on Oahu for example, can easily be flown by one aircraft, which could continue unrefueled to fly still a third.  That's a decision I'd make with my IC hat on based on crewed and ready assets at the time.

We may have our problems, but they are no more than most wings.
Believe in fate, but lean forward where fate can see you.

AirDX

Quote from: bflynn on January 22, 2015, 03:59:49 pm

They have 10 squadrons.  I'd say maybe they have too many aircraft.

Hawaii is a very different place.  People don't like things to change, especially if they view the change as detrimental to them.  Both Maui and Kauai planes were recently moved, only Oahu (6 squadrons) and Hawaii (2 squadrons) have airplanes now.   

I don't know, but I'd take a guess that 7 or 8 of the wing's airplanes are on Oahu, an area half the size of Rhode Island.  Seems like a very dense concentration.


Negative.  We have 7 composite, 1 senior, and 1 cadet squadron, total 9.  Aircraft are still assigned to Kauai (3), Oahu (4 plus a glider), Maui (1), and Hawaii (2).  Several of those are in extended maintenance.  For a snapshot tonight, the FMC aircraft are Kauai (2), Oahu (2 plus the glider), Maui (0), Hawaii (1).  Maui's aircraft was supposed to be ferried home today, however an additional discrepancy emerged on a test flight and it's still at the shop on Oahu.
Believe in fate, but lean forward where fate can see you.

Private Investigator

Quote from: AirDX on January 23, 2015, 09:03:33 am
I'm the HNL squadron commander and wing assistant director of operations.  We did indeed fail a CI, however we closed the open items and were fully successful on a re-CI in March 2014.  I was wing director of safety through that process, as well as a few months as wing chief of staff.  So the CI is pretty old news.

There are 4 aircraft nominally based on Oahu, with 5 squadrons on the island, 3 composite, 1 cadet, and 1 senior.  3 of the aircraft belong to me, though one of them has been farmed out to Hilo on the Big Island for nearly a year and a half, as theirs has been in a prolonged engine change.  Maui has had no aircraft as theirs is in extended maintenance, and Kona is the same. 

No aircraft have been moved at this point, other than the one I mentioned above, on loan.  They certainly will be if necessary.  It's hard to get to the magic 200 hours/aircraft with 40% of the fleet NMC for months at a time.

The personnel issues I won't comment on.  We remain fully mission capable, if a little strained by NMC aircraft.  The tsunami warning routes can be covered by other aircraft.  We will typically have 6-10 hours of warning time of a tsunami.  That's plenty of time to launch and fly tsunami route A, recover, refuel and launch to fly tsunami route B.  Some routes, the two on Oahu for example, can easily be flown by one aircraft, which could continue unrefueled to fly still a third.  That's a decision I'd make with my IC hat on based on crewed and ready assets at the time.

We may have our problems, but they are no more than most wings.


Thank you for the SITREP sir.