Glass Cockpit Pilot :)

[Flying Pig]

So.... we are having a G500 put in our helicopter at work.  Im down at the avionics shop looking at the progress and there is a younger guy in the hangar looking around.  He's in a tan flight suit with a small "R22" patch velcro'd to his flight suit.    He saunters over and starts to make small talk, asks me of course, if we are hiring.   He tells me he has about 1000hrs so far.  We are talking about the install on the helicopter and says "You are going to love flying glass."   (Im always amused by how some pilots talk)  So I respond "Oh, this stuff doesn't make the helicopter fly any different."  (me being a smart ---)    He then asks me if I have an "glass time".  I say "G1000 in airplanes, you?"   He says "about 900hrs, I love it."   Intrigued I ask "what were you flying that had a glass cockpit?"   He responds "22's and 44's" referring to Robinsons.  So now I'm actually impressed... "Wow so a G500?  Aspen?"   He says "No, our R22 has a G430 and our R44 has a 430 and a 696".

So now I see that Im talking to a relatively new pilot and as a CFI myself I say "Oh OK.  glass cockpit refers to things like a G1000, Flight Directors, generally systems that allow for an autopilot to be programed for approaches."  The avionics guy steps in and starts listing off some of the things that define a "glass cockpit".   Not to be swayed, he says "Well for the purposes of trying to get in to the gulf of mexico, I log it as glass time because i want to get into their IFR program in their heavies.  My school says we can log it as glass cockpit because of what we have."   He then goes on to talk about his IFR time.....

This is where I decide to disengage and look at my watch and do the whole "Oh shoot... look at the time!"  ...... sadly he will be the one sitting for an interview check ride not knowing where to begin and looking for the G696 in a fully automated Sikorsky S92.


So as we know, you can log what you want..... "time flying with sunglasses"  "time flying with green socks"  "time flying with a Garmin 696" but it doesn't mean its relevant no matter how much you want to believe it is. 

[Eclipse]

Something I've never understood about aviation in general is how much of it runs
on the "honor system", CAP included.

Then people are indignant when you call them on BS, or shocked when people can't perform
at the level their log book purports.

[FalconHatTrick]

"...My school says we can log it as glass cockpit because of what we have."   

This is what sticks out the a sore thumb to me.  When I was instructing full time I saw it all the time.  "My old instructor told me I could do it this way".  I would usually ask them, well did you look it up to see if it was correct/accurate.  The response was usually always "well my instructor said, so it must be right".

One of the Lear's I fly has an EFIS HSI, does that mean I immediately log it as "glass time".  No way.  All my glass time is all G1000/500 or Avidyne Integra, so to me it all has to be an electronic display of all of my primary flight instruments.  But just like you said, in the in it's his logbook and he's going to have to explain it at interview time.  It just stinks that it's going to hurt him when the interviewer looks at him and laughs and says thanks and have a good day.

(So you're saying my 1500hrs of Green Sock time doesn't make me anymore marketable? What about my 15,000 hours of FSX time?  )

[JeffDG]

so to me it all has to be an electronic display of all of my primary flight instruments. 

Yep, there's no "official" definition of "Glass".  I've never much thought about it, honestly...don't log it any differently myself, but that definition right there is as good as any I've seen.

[PHall]

So does anybody know what the "official" FAA position is on this?
I know that on every other type of time you can log there is a multi paragraph explanation of when you can log it and what the requirements are to log it.

[FalconHatTrick]

so to me it all has to be an electronic display of all of my primary flight instruments. 

Yep, there's no "official" definition of "Glass".  I've never much thought about it, honestly...don't log it any differently myself, but that definition right there is as good as any I've seen.

Even the definition of a TAA (Technically Advanced Aircraft) only contains 3 parts:

• IFR GPS with Moving Map
• A Multi-Function Display (MFD) with weather, traffic or terrain graphics
• An integrated autopilot

So even with that definition, it could be a TAA without a glass display PFD.  So that doesn't get us any closer to a definiton

YMMV

[FalconHatTrick]

So does anybody know what the "official" FAA position is on this?
I know that on every other type of time you can log there is a multi paragraph explanation of when you can log it and what the requirements are to log it.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the FAA cares about people logging glass cockpit time.  In FAR 61.51, it includes what the FAA wants you to log.  Anything beyond that is up to you.  Just like logging time while wearing green socks.

[a2capt]

A place run by ex-Silver State Helicopters people? ;-)

[nomiddlemas]

Wait he had around 1000 hours and didnt know what a glass cockpit is? I dont think I understood that properly. 

[PHall]

His "school" sounds like one of those certificate mills that are very good at taking your money and delivering a "barely meets the minimum requirements" product.

[Flying Pig]

Wait he had around 1000 hours and didnt know what a glass cockpit is? I dont think I understood that properly.

No.... You understood it .  I had a CFI tell me once that I couldn't log Huey time because it was a mil-surplus aircraft.   I just said "ok sure." 

[Flying Pig]

So does anybody know what the "official" FAA position is on this?
I know that on every other type of time you can log there is a multi paragraph explanation of when you can log it and what the requirements are to log it.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the FAA cares about people logging glass cockpit time.  In FAR 61.51, it includes what the FAA wants you to log.  Anything beyond that is up to you.  Just like logging time while wearing green socks.

The RW world can get crazy in what employers ask for so a lot of times newer pilots will jut log everything thy can think of to make them different.  FW isn't that way. 

I've seen some wild helicotper job ads.  "500 dolly cart landings verified through reliable documentation".  "350hrs flying within 200ft AGL but above 10,000 MSL".  "1000 hrs flying within the geographical boundries of the state of Utah."   "300hrs night cross country performing remote off-airport operations"   One was an LE pilot ad that actually said 1150hrs flying within the geographical boundries of our county" golly ...... Think they had their guy picked out already?

To his defense, I have seen helicopter job ads that specifically ask for "glass cockpit and flight management experience" it's usually on IFR helicopter positions.  But Short of having 2500-3000hrs PIC you won't get an IFR helicopter job.

With the competition in the helicotper world for jobs, often times pilots find soemthing they are doing that might be unique (or they think so) and start logging it in case one day it comes up. In his case he thought he'd found a golden goose with the 696 and nobody was going to tell him any different.

[Eclipse]

Meh...doesn't look that hard...

Self Taught Helicopter Pilot Crash

[a2capt]

Good old Cline Hogg ...

[BHartman007]

All my flight time is in a glass cockpit. Well, plexiglass. Whatever the heck the wind screen is made out of.

[Flying Pig]

Interestingly enough...... by the end of the month, Ill have this in my helicopter.  Thats the great thing about flying a public use aircraft (OH58A and a UH1H) all of the glass products made for sport planes is legal to put in.  All of the old steam gauges were just, well... old.  It was actually cheaper to install this system than to replace all the old analog instruments.  Grand total to have this bought and installed is about 10K.  The only feature that will not be operational is the engine monitoring.  The G3X doesn't monitor turbine engines.

http://www.garmin.com/us/products/intheair/sport-aviation/g3x-touch/

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