Awards by the numbers

Started by RiverAux, July 19, 2014, 12:34:29 AM

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RiverAux

According to the latest issue of the Southwest Region newsletter you will automatically be given these awards for these actions:
QuoteA SWR CAP Achievement Award for article publication on three different issues of The Fly-By. Multiple articles in the same issue will count as one.
2. A SWR Commander's Commendation Award for article publication on an additional
six different issues. Multiple articles in the same issue will count as one.

Not sure how I feel about this.  On the one hand it would be a decent achievement for your normal squadron PAO to get that many articles published in a region-level newsletter, but on the other hand, I'm not sure that setting specific targets to get these awards sits well with me.  Its not like we don't have some specific numbers attached to other CAP awards, but it isn't common. 

Thoughts?

lordmonar

It is a simple behavior/reward system.

Need articles for the newsletter.....if you contribute enough you get a ribbon.   Cost to wing....maybe $3 plus postage.

As for the concept of setting a standard and awarding a decoration for anyone who meets that standard.....I'm all for it.

What is wrong with setting specific targets?  The award is for conduct above and beyond what your peers are doing.   Your peers are not writing articles for the newsletter....so if you do.....jack pot.

We really need to more of these things.  It benefits everyone.  CAP gets the benefit of what ever the desired behavior, the member gets his pretty ribbon.   What is the down side?
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Storm Chaser

Quote from: lordmonar on July 19, 2014, 12:47:50 AM
What is the down side?

Maybe that other members have to do much more to earn the same awards. The reward may be effective in achieving the expected goal, but it has the potential of diluting the awards. Besides, NHQ has already establish the criteria for these awards:

Quote from: CAPR 39-3, 9.f. Commander's Commendation AwardOutstanding duty performance where achievements and services are clearly and unmistakably exceptional when compared to similar achievements and service of members of like rank and responsibility.

Quote from: CAPR 39-3, 9.g. CAP Achievement AwardPresented for outstanding service to the unit, group or wing.

No one should get an award for merely doing their job.

Tim Medeiros

Cool, my website is getting viewed!
TIMOTHY R. MEDEIROS, Lt Col, CAP
Chair, National IT Functional User Group
1577/2811

Jon Moser

That thing was fun to migrate from the old system...
JONATHAN R. MOSER, Capt, CAP
Director of IT
Southwest Region

lordmonar

Is not contributing to the newsletter not "outstanding service to unit, group or wing"?

The argument that it "dilutes" the award because someone else prior or even later had to do more or work harder does not really carry weight.

If the argument is "Behavior X does not meet the standard as set in 39-3" then maybe you would have a point.

So.....let's define "outstanding service" and "clearly and unmistakably exceptional when compared to...like rank and responsibility".

Where is the bar going to be set?   The we can see if "Published in three separate issues of the newsletter" meets that bar.



PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Jon Moser

Quote from: lordmonar on July 19, 2014, 02:16:52 AM
So.....let's define "outstanding service" and "clearly and unmistakably exceptional when compared to...like rank and responsibility".

Where is the bar going to be set?   The we can see if "Published in three separate issues of the newsletter" meets that bar.

Isn't this why we have awards committees to interpret that and make a decision?
JONATHAN R. MOSER, Capt, CAP
Director of IT
Southwest Region

Tim Medeiros

Quote from: Jon Moser on July 19, 2014, 02:18:49 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on July 19, 2014, 02:16:52 AM
So.....let's define "outstanding service" and "clearly and unmistakably exceptional when compared to...like rank and responsibility".

Where is the bar going to be set?   The we can see if "Published in three separate issues of the newsletter" meets that bar.

Isn't this why we have awards committees to interpret that and make a decision recommendation?
fixed for ya  ;)
TIMOTHY R. MEDEIROS, Lt Col, CAP
Chair, National IT Functional User Group
1577/2811

Jon Moser

Quote from: Tim Medeiros on July 19, 2014, 02:25:42 AM
Quote from: Jon Moser on July 19, 2014, 02:18:49 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on July 19, 2014, 02:16:52 AM
So.....let's define "outstanding service" and "clearly and unmistakably exceptional when compared to...like rank and responsibility".

Where is the bar going to be set?   The we can see if "Published in three separate issues of the newsletter" meets that bar.

Isn't this why we have awards committees to interpret that and make a decision recommendation?
fixed for ya  ;)

Ah you're right.
JONATHAN R. MOSER, Capt, CAP
Director of IT
Southwest Region

Storm Chaser

Quote from: lordmonar on July 19, 2014, 02:16:52 AM
Is not contributing to the newsletter not "outstanding service to unit, group or wing"?

Maybe. But shouldn't it be up to the commander of each echelon to determine if an individual did "outstanding service to their unit, group or wing"? A blanket "do this, then get this" kind of defeats that process.

Furthermore, how can writing articles for six issues of a publication in and of itself be considered "[ o]utstanding duty performance where achievements and services are clearly and unmistakably exceptional..."?

As a commander, I would expect more for such commendation, especially one at the Region level.

Jon Moser

Quote from: Storm Chaser on July 19, 2014, 02:29:36 AM
Furthermore, how can writing articles for six issues of a publication in and of itself be considered "[ o]utstanding duty performance where achievements and services are clearly and unmistakably exceptional..."?

As a commander, I would expect more for such commendation, especially one at the Region level.

It might be interpreted as "exceptional" if no one is writing/submitting articles. I don't know if that is the case here but that might be the reasoning behind it.
JONATHAN R. MOSER, Capt, CAP
Director of IT
Southwest Region

MHC5096

I can remember a time when the Navy Recruiting Command was awarding Navy Achievement Medals to Naval Reservists that helped recruit three new recruits into the Navy. This sort of concept isn't anything new.
Mark H. Crary
Lt Col, CAP (1990-Present)
DDC-P, CGAUX (2011-Present)
MSgt, USAF (1995-2011)
QM2, USN (1989-1995)

Storm Chaser

Quote from: Jon Moser on July 19, 2014, 02:34:35 AM
Quote from: Storm Chaser on July 19, 2014, 02:29:36 AM
Furthermore, how can writing articles for six issues of a publication in and of itself be considered "[ o]utstanding duty performance where achievements and services are clearly and unmistakably exceptional..."?

As a commander, I would expect more for such commendation, especially one at the Region level.

It might be interpreted as "exceptional" if no one is writing/submitting articles. I don't know if that is the case here but that might be the reasoning behind it.

"Exceptional" at the Region level?

lordmonar

I would assume that the region PDO coordinated with the region commander to do just that.

As for where the bar is set.   If you the standard for most members of the region is ZERO articles.....then three is outstanding and six is clearly and unmistakably exceptional when compared to your peers as determined by the region commander.

If you or I disagree with that determination....that's okay because we may all have different standards.

Where would you set the standard for a Achievement Award?  Where would you set the standard for a Commendation?
3/6, 6/12, 100/200?




PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Storm Chaser

The problem with your analysis is that the Region Commander's Commendation is not a PAO award. The standard, IMO, should be higher. But it's not my award to give, so...

lordmonar

Quote from: MHC5096 on July 19, 2014, 02:35:38 AM
I can remember a time when the Navy Recruiting Command was awarding Navy Achievement Medals to Naval Reservists that helped recruit three new recruits into the Navy. This sort of concept isn't anything new.
In the USAF....if you volunteered to serve on the base honor guard for a year....you were promised an AFAM. 

This sort of thing is no different then the SAR/DR ribbon, the HLS ribbon, O-Ride ribbon, the recruiting ribbon or the Community Service Ribbon.  Do XYZ and get a ribbon. 
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

GroundHawg

Quote from: Storm Chaser on July 19, 2014, 02:08:40 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on July 19, 2014, 12:47:50 AM
What is the down side?

Maybe that other members have to do much more to earn the same awards. The reward may be effective in achieving the expected goal, but it has the potential of diluting the awards. Besides, NHQ has already establish the criteria for these awards:

Quote from: CAPR 39-3, 9.f. Commander's Commendation AwardOutstanding duty performance where achievements and services are clearly and unmistakably exceptional when compared to similar achievements and service of members of like rank and responsibility.

Quote from: CAPR 39-3, 9.g. CAP Achievement AwardPresented for outstanding service to the unit, group or wing.

No one should get an award for merely doing their job.

And yet this is exactly the same system for being awarded the Air Medal. In the USAF if your aircraft is armed, 10 sorties gets you an Air Medal, unarmed is 20. A C130 Loadmaster based in theater will earn around 5 for a six month tour, whether they were ever shot at or did anything out of the ordinary.

My USAF Reserve Recruiter had an AAM and a NAM. I asked him about it and he said that he would walk the recruits that didnt qualify for the USAF over to the Navy or Army offices. He got one of each for using the program listed above.

It is a fairly common system in the military and it only makes sense that CAP would use it sooner or later.

Jon Moser

Quote from: Storm Chaser on July 19, 2014, 02:08:40 AM
No one should get an award for merely doing their job.

I would think an exception to this could be if in the act of doing your job you are cleaning up a giant mess left behind by your predecessor(s). Some of those messes can be pretty ugly to fix.
JONATHAN R. MOSER, Capt, CAP
Director of IT
Southwest Region

lordmonar

Quote from: Storm Chaser on July 19, 2014, 02:43:14 AM
The problem with your analysis is that the Region Commander's Commendation is not a PAO award.
No...it is a generic award to be awarded for any service to CAP that meets the standard for "Outstanding duty performance where achievements and services are clearly and unmistakably exceptional when compared to similar achievements and service of members of like rank and responsibility." It can be for PAO work, personnel work, ES work, CP work, logistics work.

QuoteThe standard, IMO, should be higher. But it's not my award to give, so...
So.....where should, in your opinion, the standard be set at?

In this context.....contributing to the region's newsletter.....for your generic wing/group/squadron member or PAO?

I would buy the idea that there should be a different standard for PAOs vs other CAP members as we expect PAOs to publish articles.

The concept with any generic decoration like the Achievement/commendation/Meritorious Service/Exceptional Service medals....is that we want our people to do "good stuff" and we reward them when they do it.

I will buy an argument of "that's not where the bar should be" but I don't buy the "we should not be publishing the bar".

On that same line of thought....I also buy into the idea that the bar can change over time.   If right now...no one is submitting articles for the newsletter then 3/6 may be a good bar (or not YMMV)....if down the road we have lots of people contributing to the newsletter, then yes the bar should be moved to reflect the new base line.

PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

lordmonar

Quote from: Storm Chaser on July 19, 2014, 02:08:40 AM
No one should get an award for merely doing their job.
Absolutely....they should get a medal for doing "outstanding" and "exceptional" work at their job.

So...my job as a squadron PDO does not require me to submit any articles to any publication.   So even submitting one (and it getting published) instantly makes me doing more then I have to.   Submitting 3.....is where the regional commander has set the bar as being outstanding and 6 is where I become clearly and unmistakeably exceptional.

On the other hand....as GroundHawg said....we got lots and lots of ribbons for just doing your job.....not even doing your job well or exceptionally.....just doing it.   Fly 20 SAR sorties...get the SAR ribbon.  Do 20 CD sorties.....get the CD ribbon.




PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP