Senior Member can't wear his NRA Marksman award?

[Eclipse]

Exceptions are granted in "emergencies"...

Also, ewwwww...

[cap235629]

No we don't need another badge.  36-2903 authorizes sister service badges yes and I would have to look but I do not believe marksmanship badges are authorized.  The Excellence in Competition badge is authorized for wear.

The new USAF Uniform Instruction authorizes all sister Service badges, awards and decorations for wear on the uniform.

It seems pretty cut and dry.

But not NRA badges.

No it is not cut and dry it states qualification badges and not marksmanship badges.  See as follows:

AFI36-2903 Para: 10.5.

Qualification and Miscellaneous Badges and Patches.
Qualification badges are defined as badges earned and permanently awarded that reflect special skills that an Airman has demonstrated proficiency or qualification in that complements their primary mission. Wear of other services' qualification badges, if earned and awarded, is authorized. Award criteria for other services' qualification badges will be in accordance with awarding Service's directives (Army MilPERCEN; Navy; BUPERS, etc.). Temporary qualification badges and those not related to an Airman's current primary mission are not authorized for wear on the uniform.

Refer to attachment 5 for a listing of qualification badges and patches authorized (not inclusive).

Ergo other service marksmanship badges are not authorized for wear on the AF uniform.  The EIC badge is authorized for wear by members.  Please stay in your lane.

Doe this mean I can wear my Army MP Regimental crest which is a permanent award upon graduation from the MP School?

[Panache]

Doe this mean I can wear my Army MP Regimental crest which is a permanent award upon graduation from the MP School?

Good question.  This will look pretty sweet on my CAP uniform...

[RogueLeader]

My Engineer Regimental crest looks sweet too. 

[abdsp51]

No we don't need another badge.  36-2903 authorizes sister service badges yes and I would have to look but I do not believe marksmanship badges are authorized.  The Excellence in Competition badge is authorized for wear.

The new USAF Uniform Instruction authorizes all sister Service badges, awards and decorations for wear on the uniform.

It seems pretty cut and dry.

But not NRA badges.

No it is not cut and dry it states qualification badges and not marksmanship badges.  See as follows:

AFI36-2903 Para: 10.5.

Qualification and Miscellaneous Badges and Patches.
Qualification badges are defined as badges earned and permanently awarded that reflect special skills that an Airman has demonstrated proficiency or qualification in that complements their primary mission. Wear of other services' qualification badges, if earned and awarded, is authorized. Award criteria for other services' qualification badges will be in accordance with awarding Service's directives (Army MilPERCEN; Navy; BUPERS, etc.). Temporary qualification badges and those not related to an Airman's current primary mission are not authorized for wear on the uniform.

Refer to attachment 5 for a listing of qualification badges and patches authorized (not inclusive).

Ergo other service marksmanship badges are not authorized for wear on the AF uniform.  The EIC badge is authorized for wear by members.  Please stay in your lane.

Doe this mean I can wear my Army MP Regimental crest which is a permanent award upon graduation from the MP School?

Does 39-1 say you can? 

[Flying Pig]

Ill chime in..... although I see you arent coming back though... Its a badge for KIDS and you will look ridiculous as an adult walking around with it.   I didnt give it a second thought when I wasn't able to wear my 4th award USMC rifle and pistol expert badges on my CAP uniform.

Sorry...not true.  Anyone can earn the NRA Badges.

I am referring to their use in CAP.  Its is a badge for kids to strut around with. 

[Mitchell 1969]

I certainly agree.

Seniors must be there, buy may not shoot.

Nor could you arrange a "seniors only" day on the range.

Also, if you're a senior member who happens to be an NRA instructor, you're wearing >that< hat while you're teaching,
just as you're wearing the ARC's (or whoever) if you teach first aid.

With only minimal creativity and definitely staying within the regulations, I could figure out a way to have Seniors shoot. Getting them qualified for a NRA badge might even happen. 

But even if they earned the badge, they couldn't wear it on a CAP uniform.

[Shuman 14]

No we don't need another badge.  36-2903 authorizes sister service badges yes and I would have to look but I do not believe marksmanship badges are authorized.  The Excellence in Competition badge is authorized for wear.

The new USAF Uniform Instruction authorizes all sister Service badges, awards and decorations for wear on the uniform.

It seems pretty cut and dry.

But not NRA badges.

No it is not cut and dry it states qualification badges and not marksmanship badges.  See as follows:

AFI36-2903 Para: 10.5.

Qualification and Miscellaneous Badges and Patches.
Qualification badges are defined as badges earned and permanently awarded that reflect special skills that an Airman has demonstrated proficiency or qualification in that complements their primary mission. Wear of other services' qualification badges, if earned and awarded, is authorized. Award criteria for other services' qualification badges will be in accordance with awarding Service's directives (Army MilPERCEN; Navy; BUPERS, etc.). Temporary qualification badges and those not related to an Airman's current primary mission are not authorized for wear on the uniform.

Refer to attachment 5 for a listing of qualification badges and patches authorized (not inclusive).

Ergo other service marksmanship badges are not authorized for wear on the AF uniform.  The EIC badge is authorized for wear by members.  Please stay in your lane.

What part of "not inclusive" do you not understand? It means there are a plethora of badges, from all Services, now authorized for wear on the USAF uniform, not all of them are displayed pictorially in the attachment. 

I would submit to you that a Marksmanship Qualification Badge is not a temporary badge, it a permanent award, until superseded  by a more recent weapons qualification.

If the USAF is allowing prior Service Navy and Coast Guard members to wear their Marksmanship Qualification Ribbons and/or Medals, as outlined in Chapter 11, why would they not allow the same for prior Service Army and Marine members of their Marksmanship Badges?

That would seem to violate the spirit and intent of the new instructions as stated here: http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/473134/af-uniform-policy-update-welcome-back-morale-t-shirts-badges-and-limitless-athl.aspx

and I quote:

The second is recognizing and valuing Airmen's experiences, qualifications and job performance, allowing Airmen to wear what they have earned. The last area is a group of common sense approach inputs from Airmen in the field that senior leaders thought were great ideas.

Still would not authorize a NRA badge for wear, though. 

[abdsp51]

No we don't need another badge.  36-2903 authorizes sister service badges yes and I would have to look but I do not believe marksmanship badges are authorized.  The Excellence in Competition badge is authorized for wear.

The new USAF Uniform Instruction authorizes all sister Service badges, awards and decorations for wear on the uniform.

It seems pretty cut and dry.

But not NRA badges.

No it is not cut and dry it states qualification badges and not marksmanship badges.  See as follows:

AFI36-2903 Para: 10.5.

Qualification and Miscellaneous Badges and Patches.
Qualification badges are defined as badges earned and permanently awarded that reflect special skills that an Airman has demonstrated proficiency or qualification in that complements their primary mission. Wear of other services' qualification badges, if earned and awarded, is authorized. Award criteria for other services' qualification badges will be in accordance with awarding Service's directives (Army MilPERCEN; Navy; BUPERS, etc.). Temporary qualification badges and those not related to an Airman's current primary mission are not authorized for wear on the uniform.

Refer to attachment 5 for a listing of qualification badges and patches authorized (not inclusive).

Ergo other service marksmanship badges are not authorized for wear on the AF uniform.  The EIC badge is authorized for wear by members.  Please stay in your lane.

What part of "not inclusive" do you not understand? It means there are a plethora of badges, from all Services, now authorized for wear on the USAF uniform, not all of them are displayed pictorially in the attachment. 

I would submit to you that a Marksmanship Qualification Badge is not a temporary badge, it a permanent award, until superseded  by a more recent weapons qualification.

If the USAF is allowing prior Service Navy and Coast Guard members to wear their Marksmanship Qualification Ribbons and/or Medals, as outlined in Chapter 11, why would they not allow the same for prior Service Army and Marine members of their Marksmanship Badges?

That would seem to violate the spirit and intent of the new instructions as stated here: http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/473134/af-uniform-policy-update-welcome-back-morale-t-shirts-badges-and-limitless-athl.aspx

and I quote:

The second is recognizing and valuing Airmen's experiences, qualifications and job performance, allowing Airmen to wear what they have earned. The last area is a group of common sense approach inputs from Airmen in the field that senior leaders thought were great ideas.

Still would not authorize a NRA badge for wear, though. 

That is the verbiage verbatim from the AFI.  Army marksmanship medals are not authorized just like combat patches are not authorized. 

[Shuman 14]

No we don't need another badge.  36-2903 authorizes sister service badges yes and I would have to look but I do not believe marksmanship badges are authorized.  The Excellence in Competition badge is authorized for wear.

The new USAF Uniform Instruction authorizes all sister Service badges, awards and decorations for wear on the uniform.

It seems pretty cut and dry.

But not NRA badges.

No it is not cut and dry it states qualification badges and not marksmanship badges.  See as follows:

AFI36-2903 Para: 10.5.

Qualification and Miscellaneous Badges and Patches.
Qualification badges are defined as badges earned and permanently awarded that reflect special skills that an Airman has demonstrated proficiency or qualification in that complements their primary mission. Wear of other services' qualification badges, if earned and awarded, is authorized. Award criteria for other services' qualification badges will be in accordance with awarding Service's directives (Army MilPERCEN; Navy; BUPERS, etc.). Temporary qualification badges and those not related to an Airman's current primary mission are not authorized for wear on the uniform.

Refer to attachment 5 for a listing of qualification badges and patches authorized (not inclusive).

Ergo other service marksmanship badges are not authorized for wear on the AF uniform.  The EIC badge is authorized for wear by members.  Please stay in your lane.

What part of "not inclusive" do you not understand? It means there are a plethora of badges, from all Services, now authorized for wear on the USAF uniform, not all of them are displayed pictorially in the attachment. 

I would submit to you that a Marksmanship Qualification Badge is not a temporary badge, it a permanent award, until superseded  by a more recent weapons qualification.

If the USAF is allowing prior Service Navy and Coast Guard members to wear their Marksmanship Qualification Ribbons and/or Medals, as outlined in Chapter 11, why would they not allow the same for prior Service Army and Marine members of their Marksmanship Badges?

That would seem to violate the spirit and intent of the new instructions as stated here: http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/473134/af-uniform-policy-update-welcome-back-morale-t-shirts-badges-and-limitless-athl.aspx

and I quote:

The second is recognizing and valuing Airmen's experiences, qualifications and job performance, allowing Airmen to wear what they have earned. The last area is a group of common sense approach inputs from Airmen in the field that senior leaders thought were great ideas.

Still would not authorize a NRA badge for wear, though. 

That is the verbiage verbatim from the AFI.  Army marksmanship medals are not authorized just like combat patches are not authorized.

Yes, I can read, and I do not see where it says they are not authorized. They reflect a special skill, they are not temporary badges, they are permanently awarded... they are authorized.

Combat patches (i.e. Shoulder Sleeve Insignia - Former Wartime Service) like the Regimental Duty Insignia are identification badges and not authorized for wear.

[abdsp51]

No we don't need another badge.  36-2903 authorizes sister service badges yes and I would have to look but I do not believe marksmanship badges are authorized.  The Excellence in Competition badge is authorized for wear.

The new USAF Uniform Instruction authorizes all sister Service badges, awards and decorations for wear on the uniform.

It seems pretty cut and dry.

But not NRA badges.

No it is not cut and dry it states qualification badges and not marksmanship badges.  See as follows:

AFI36-2903 Para: 10.5.

Qualification and Miscellaneous Badges and Patches.
Qualification badges are defined as badges earned and permanently awarded that reflect special skills that an Airman has demonstrated proficiency or qualification in that complements their primary mission. Wear of other services' qualification badges, if earned and awarded, is authorized. Award criteria for other services' qualification badges will be in accordance with awarding Service's directives (Army MilPERCEN; Navy; BUPERS, etc.). Temporary qualification badges and those not related to an Airman's current primary mission are not authorized for wear on the uniform.

Refer to attachment 5 for a listing of qualification badges and patches authorized (not inclusive).

Ergo other service marksmanship badges are not authorized for wear on the AF uniform.  The EIC badge is authorized for wear by members.  Please stay in your lane.

What part of "not inclusive" do you not understand? It means there are a plethora of badges, from all Services, now authorized for wear on the USAF uniform, not all of them are displayed pictorially in the attachment. 

I would submit to you that a Marksmanship Qualification Badge is not a temporary badge, it a permanent award, until superseded  by a more recent weapons qualification.

If the USAF is allowing prior Service Navy and Coast Guard members to wear their Marksmanship Qualification Ribbons and/or Medals, as outlined in Chapter 11, why would they not allow the same for prior Service Army and Marine members of their Marksmanship Badges?

That would seem to violate the spirit and intent of the new instructions as stated here: http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/473134/af-uniform-policy-update-welcome-back-morale-t-shirts-badges-and-limitless-athl.aspx

and I quote:

The second is recognizing and valuing Airmen's experiences, qualifications and job performance, allowing Airmen to wear what they have earned. The last area is a group of common sense approach inputs from Airmen in the field that senior leaders thought were great ideas.

Still would not authorize a NRA badge for wear, though. 

That is the verbiage verbatim from the AFI.  Army marksmanship medals are not authorized just like combat patches are not authorized.

Yes, I can read, and I do not see where it says they are not authorized. They reflect a special skill, they are not temporary badges, they are permanently awarded... they are authorized.

Combat patches (i.e. Shoulder Sleeve Insignia - Former Wartime Service) like the Regimental Duty Insignia are identification badges and not authorized for wear.

Ok, Barney style for you then since you missed it "reflect special skills that an Airman has demonstrated proficiency or qualification in that complements their primary mission."  Marksmanship outside of specific AFSCs do not complement most AF members primary mission.  Ergo read the entire the clause in and of it self states that the marksmanship badges are not authorized.  Is that clear enough for you?

[Storm Chaser]

No we don't need another badge.  36-2903 authorizes sister service badges yes and I would have to look but I do not believe marksmanship badges are authorized.  The Excellence in Competition badge is authorized for wear.

The new USAF Uniform Instruction authorizes all sister Service badges, awards and decorations for wear on the uniform.

It seems pretty cut and dry.

But not NRA badges.

No it is not cut and dry it states qualification badges and not marksmanship badges.  See as follows:

AFI36-2903 Para: 10.5.

Qualification and Miscellaneous Badges and Patches.
Qualification badges are defined as badges earned and permanently awarded that reflect special skills that an Airman has demonstrated proficiency or qualification in that complements their primary mission. Wear of other services' qualification badges, if earned and awarded, is authorized. Award criteria for other services' qualification badges will be in accordance with awarding Service's directives (Army MilPERCEN; Navy; BUPERS, etc.). Temporary qualification badges and those not related to an Airman's current primary mission are not authorized for wear on the uniform.

Refer to attachment 5 for a listing of qualification badges and patches authorized (not inclusive).

Ergo other service marksmanship badges are not authorized for wear on the AF uniform.  The EIC badge is authorized for wear by members.  Please stay in your lane.

What part of "not inclusive" do you not understand? It means there are a plethora of badges, from all Services, now authorized for wear on the USAF uniform, not all of them are displayed pictorially in the attachment. 

I would submit to you that a Marksmanship Qualification Badge is not a temporary badge, it a permanent award, until superseded  by a more recent weapons qualification.

If the USAF is allowing prior Service Navy and Coast Guard members to wear their Marksmanship Qualification Ribbons and/or Medals, as outlined in Chapter 11, why would they not allow the same for prior Service Army and Marine members of their Marksmanship Badges?

That would seem to violate the spirit and intent of the new instructions as stated here: http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/473134/af-uniform-policy-update-welcome-back-morale-t-shirts-badges-and-limitless-athl.aspx

and I quote:

The second is recognizing and valuing Airmen's experiences, qualifications and job performance, allowing Airmen to wear what they have earned. The last area is a group of common sense approach inputs from Airmen in the field that senior leaders thought were great ideas.

Still would not authorize a NRA badge for wear, though. 

That is the verbiage verbatim from the AFI.  Army marksmanship medals are not authorized just like combat patches are not authorized.

Yes, I can read, and I do not see where it says they are not authorized. They reflect a special skill, they are not temporary badges, they are permanently awarded... they are authorized.

Combat patches (i.e. Shoulder Sleeve Insignia - Former Wartime Service) like the Regimental Duty Insignia are identification badges and not authorized for wear.

My understanding is that Army Marksmanship Qualification Badges are not permanent awards. When a soldier re-qualifies with their weapon at a different level, the soldier replaces their qualification badge with a new badge that reflects their current level.

Marksmanship Badges. An award for previous marksmanship weapons qualification is revoked automatically whenever an individual, upon completion of firing a record course for which the previous award was made, has not attained the same qualification.

In 18 years in the Air Force (including AD, Guard and Reserve), I've never seen former Army Soldiers wearing this particular badge on an Air Force uniform.

[PHall]

In 18 years in the Air Force (including AD, Guard and Reserve), I've never seen former Army Soldiers wearing this particular badge on an Air Force uniform.

They wear the Air Force Small Arms Expert Markmanship Ribbon instead. They get to put a bronze star on it if they qualify "expert" on two or more weapons.

And like you sir, in over 31-1/2 years in the Air Force/Air National Guard/Air Force Reserve, I never ever saw any former Soldier or Marine wearing their former service markmanship badges.

But our friend who posts from the Guard Shack because he's bored and likes to "stir things up" probably won't accept this answer.
meh...

[Private Investigator]

...  I will put in my request for a modification of the regulations as this is clearly a relic from the age of the "youth" shooting badges and not adapted to the new NRA program.  If you don't like what I think, keep posting here.  This will be my last post on CAPtalk.  Happy trolling.

Well williamburdge must be a retiree who joined CAP in the last 90 days. Typical question the other one is can I wear my Viet Nam service ribbons on the white aviator shirt. 

[Private Investigator]

Air Force has a ribbon instead of badge.

Same thing with the Navy.

[bobcat746]

I have an answer to this.  He can just wear his NRA badge on the elastic band of his underwear. That way he can also wear the AF Blues!

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I don't need one that "authorizes" it.  That which is not prohibited is implicitly permitted.

From the new CAPM 39-1, which makes it fairly clear (emphasis added is mine) with sorely needed language:

1.1.1.2.1. CAP's USAF-style uniform policies will adhere to USAF standards found in the appropriate USAF instructions. Differences from USAF standards will be only those differences required to meet unique CAP requirements and allowed by USAF-approved exceptions. CAP honors our special relationship with the USAF through closely adhering to the policies set for the USAF's uniform.

1.1.2.1. COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. This publication is the sole source for wear instructions and authorized items for various uniform combinations as prescribed within. Variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear with uniforms. Local commanders do not have the authority to waive grooming and appearance standards.

So if it's not in the book, whether the AFI or the CAPM (the latter of which is the first source for CAP members), it's a no go. And if you haven't read the new CAPM 39-1, I strenuously advise that you do.

[bobcat746]

....and I am not a troll.  A Captain with CAP.  I often wonder if the General reads these posts.

[PHall]

....and I am not a troll.  A Captain with CAP.  I often wonder if the General reads these posts.

Nobody called you a troll.  And yes a number of the senior leadership does read these posts. What's your point?

[Storm Chaser]

I don't need one that "authorizes" it.  That which is not prohibited is implicitly permitted.

From the new CAPM 39-1, which makes it fairly clear (emphasis added is mine) with sorely needed language:

1.1.1.2.1. CAP's USAF-style uniform policies will adhere to USAF standards found in the appropriate USAF instructions. Differences from USAF standards will be only those differences required to meet unique CAP requirements and allowed by USAF-approved exceptions. CAP honors our special relationship with the USAF through closely adhering to the policies set for the USAF's uniform.

1.1.2.1. COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY. This publication is the sole source for wear instructions and authorized items for various uniform combinations as prescribed within. Variation from this publication is not authorized. Items not listed in this publication are not authorized for wear with uniforms. Local commanders do not have the authority to waive grooming and appearance standards.

So if it's not in the book, whether the AFI or the CAPM (the latter of which is the first source for CAP members), it's a no go. And if you haven't read the new CAPM 39-1, I strenuously advise that you do.

In all fairness, JeffDG was talking about senior members doing firearm training with the NRA, which is not governed by CAPM 39-1.