Pathfinder Technical School

[Eclipse]

You've got far too many mixed issues to respond directly (plus your quotes are broken).

You're also confusing what would be "CAP should do" with what "CAP does".

As to the forbidden comment - nice try, you know that's not how this works.

What's wrong with it?  Nothing I guess, since clearly "form over function" is the new mantra of CAP.
Sadly that fixes nothing, generates member disquiet, and generally just makes things worse, both
internally and externally, but this is a lesson CAP not only doesn't learn, but actively ignores.

[lordmonar]

You've got far too many mixed issues to respond directly (plus your quotes are broken).

You're also confusing what would be "CAP should do" with what "CAP does".

SEARCH AND RESCUE......I'm pretty sure that's what CAP does.

As to the forbidden comment - nice try, you know that's not how this works.

Really?

What's wrong with it?  Nothing I guess, since clearly "form over function" is the new mantra of CAP.
Sadly that fixes nothing, generates member disquiet, and generally just makes things worse, both
internally and externally, but this is a lesson CAP not only doesn't learn, but actively ignores.

Who said anything about form over function?   The Pathfinder Rating ADDS FUNCTION. 

[LSThiker]

If this is the basic first aid appropriate for CAP members,
then they will not be "medics", any more then anyone else in CAP.  Calling them that is affectation and puffery.

Going back to his question that you misunderstood, since CAP does not have medics, what would be a good name to call the course?

[lordmonar]

If this is the basic first aid appropriate for CAP members,
then they will not be "medics", any more then anyone else in CAP.  Calling them that is affectation and puffery.

Going back to his question that you misunderstood, since CAP does not have medics, what would be a good name to call the course?

Wilderness First Aid?

[LSThiker]

If this is the basic first aid appropriate for CAP members,
then they will not be "medics", any more then anyone else in CAP.  Calling them that is affectation and puffery.

Going back to his question that you misunderstood, since CAP does not have medics, what would be a good name to call the course?

Wilderness First Aid?

That would be what I would recommend, but  do not want to confuse it with the NOLS wilderness first aid course

[isuhawkeye]

There are many entities offering wilderness first aid courses and NOLS as good as they are was not the first to offer the training.

[lordmonar]

If this is the basic first aid appropriate for CAP members,
then they will not be "medics", any more then anyone else in CAP.  Calling them that is affectation and puffery.

Going back to his question that you misunderstood, since CAP does not have medics, what would be a good name to call the course?

Wilderness First Aid?

That would be what I would recommend, but  do not want to confuse it with the NOLS wilderness first aid course

Do a Google on wilderness first aid.....NOLS is not the only one who offers that type of training.

Modified---Isuhawkeye beat me to the punch. 

[jeders]

If this is the basic first aid appropriate for CAP members,
then they will not be "medics", any more then anyone else in CAP.  Calling them that is affectation and puffery.

Going back to his question that you misunderstood, since CAP does not have medics, what would be a good name to call the course?

Wilderness First Aid?

Or advanced first aid, disaster preparedness, pretty much anything that didn't imply that you're training EMTs.

[Eclipse]

^ This, or simply "First Aid Training".

[Eclipse]

You've got far too many mixed issues to respond directly (plus your quotes are broken).

You're also confusing what would be "CAP should do" with what "CAP does".

SEARCH AND RESCUE......I'm pretty sure that's what CAP does.

I'm pretty sure CAP hasn't "rescued" anyone in a long time, and certainly not in enough quantity
to actually count that as a capability.  Unless you consider the below "rescuing":


The nearest most CAP people get to a "litter carry" is the FOD walk at an air show.

The Pathfinder Rating ADDS FUNCTION.

No, the extra training adds the functionality.  The rating adds nothing since it means nothing in a CAP context.
If anything the "Pathfinder" and "Medic" nonsense detract from what is likely otherwise a good effort.

[isuhawkeye]

It is always interesting to see how simple words provide such a great divide within CAP.  Many here are hung up on the term Medic and its scope.  I went to Webster's and here is the definition of

medic : a person engaged in medical work

I do not see a reference to license or certification here.  I don't see an implication of a specific certification or credential.  I also do not see a mandate for medical oversight or direction from a certifying body or agency.  I simply see a reference to a person who provides some form of medical care.  If I place mole skin on a team mate's blister does that make me a medic?  If I am the designated well educated bystanders who will provide first aid and call 911 if needed does that make me a medic?  Does it put me at odds with laws or rules?

Even when everyone on the team has the same level of medical training many teams will designate a medic from within its members to ensure that everyone knows their responsibility and job during the mission.  This designation may not imply any greater skill set or equipment than anyone else, it simply designates the duties that they are expected to perform when called upon.  Many teams designate radio operators, scribes, drivers, team leaders, medics, navigators, and other duties as needed/

If members have mastered the base curriculum and have attained the certifications and training that is required to meet the minimums why wouldn't you encourage them to attain more knowledge and skills even when you know the restrictions that your team operates within. 

Whether it's a ranger school, a pathfinder school, a medic school, a beret program, or other cool school these individuals have met the baseline and are working on greater knowledge sets.  No IC needs to know the difference between a ranger, a beret, or a pathfinder because the missions don't call for the additional skills.

[lordmonar]

The most people in the USAF get to dropping a bomb is doing a FOD walk after the airshow.........your point?

SAR is what CAP does....one of the many things it does.

So my point that all the training listed in the pathfinder ratings all apply to SAR and/or DR.....and there fore are not unnecessary skills.

And CAP has rescued people.  I was GBD for a team of CAP cadets (and on senior member who was NOT the team leader) who effected the rescue of an injured hiker.

So....it happens....and we train for it.

[Eclipse]

It is always interesting to see how simple words provide such a great divide within CAP.  Many here are hung up on the term Medic and its scope.  I went to Webster's and here is the definition of

medic : a person engaged in medical work

I do not see a reference to license or certification here.

If the term weren't "important", then the activity planners would not have selected it. Words mean things.
It's always humorous to see people defending a given term or name for something when others
take exception in the vein of "who cares, it's just a name", but not considering >why< those names
or terms were chosen.  in this case it is purely for the inference of more capability then allowed.

Cadet 1: "I'm a GTM1."

Cadet 2: "I'm a Pathfinder Medic."

Cadet 1: "Whoa, cool.  Does that mean you go out on calls and stuff I can't go on?"

Cadet 2: "No.

Cadet 1: "soooo.....


But to that end:

Wikipedia:
Medic (sometimes medico) is a general term for a person involved in medicine; a physician, medical student, or military medical corpsman. In the UK, the term "medic" amongst doctors indicates that someone has followed a "medical" career path accredited by the MRCP such as cardiology or endocrinology. This is in contrast to a surgical branch of specialisation in postgraduate professional training.

med·i·cal  adjective  1. of or pertaining to the science or practice of medicine: medical history; medical treatment.

CAP people are decidedly >not< "involved in medicine".  Our role, in the most extreme circumstances, is
stabilization of a patient to prevent death.  We do not treat or diagnose.

When coming upon a victim with a deep wound, a CAP person's only role is going to be stopping the bleeding to prevent death
and / or getting help.

A medic could very well stitch or otherwise treat the wound on site.

[LSThiker]

There are many entities offering wilderness first aid courses and NOLS as good as they are was not the first to offer the training.

Yes of course.  I should have clarified.  My point is unless it meets the curriculum standards of agencies such as BSA and ACA, then the use of "wilderness first aid" should also be limited as it implies those students are trained and certified in an approved wilderness first aid (or wilderness advanced first aid) course.  Otherwise, we run into the same situation as the term "medic" which has no legal definition, but rather a social definition.  Unless of course, that is what they are doing such as NESA. 

What I would suggest would be either remote advanced first aid or simply remote first aid or even more sexy advanced SAR first aid.

[Garibaldi]

I'm now wondering if the term "Medic" would only apply to treating the members of the team, kind of like a corpsman. Basic first aid care of team member's boo-boos? That's about all we can provide, so I'm just askin'....

[lordmonar]

Isuhawkeye,

The issue with the term "Medic" is that like you said....the dictionary says it is a person engaged in medical work.   So....it implies that the "medic" is a medical provider....something that 60-3 says we can't be doing and should not be advertising as something we can do.


They don't have a down loadable skill sheet for a Pathfinder Medic....so I don't know what the qualifications are......but....and here is the key......there is no reason why we should not be getting the training (assuming it stays at the First Responder level and below).   

Sure most teams designated sub-job....the Navigator has the map and GPS, the radio operator has the radio.....if the "medic" is the guy carrying the first aid kit and litter....no problem with that.

It is the rating....not the training.....that crosses the line as far as how I read the regulation.   An outside agency seeing that we have "medics" may imply that we are an Emergency Medical Provider or Paramedic organization....which 60-3 says we are not.

[lordmonar]

or even more sexy advanced SAR first aid.

No...we can't have sexy names.....it may give us airs.   

[Eclipse]

And CAP has rescued people.  I was GBD for a team of CAP cadets (and on senior member who was NOT the team leader) who effected the rescue of an injured hiker.

From what I understand, we bombed some subs, too.  It happens.

[lordmonar]

I'm now wondering if the term "Medic" would only apply to treating the members of the team, kind of like a corpsman. Basic first aid care of team member's boo-boos? That's about all we can provide, so I'm just askin'....

No....look at 60-3. 

The only type of medical aid that should be administered by CAP personnel or by any other person at CAP's request is reasonable treatment deemed necessary to save a life or prevent human suffering. This treatment must be executed by a person qualified to attempt such medical care within their skill level.

Reasonable treatment deemed necessary to save a life or prevent human suffer.

We can do medical stuff...in the field.....to others.....up to our level of skill level.

It is this sentence

CAP is not an emergency medical care or paramedic organization and should not advertise itself as such.

that makes in improper for us to qualify "medics".  It gives the impress that we are a medical care or paramedic organization.

[lordmonar]

And CAP has rescued people.  I was GBD for a team of CAP cadets (and on senior member who was NOT the team leader) who effected the rescue of an injured hiker.

From what I understand, we bombed some subs, too.  It happens.

Yes?
Check the logical fallacies list.