CAP and JROTC drill meets

[Brad]

While shaving this morning getting ready to go judge the JROTC drill meet at my old high school at the request of their unit's instructor because they were short on judges, I had a thought. With the demise of National Cadet Competition, has anyone considered having their cadets that want to....with the permission of the hosting schools and surrounding schools of course...participate in JROTC drill meets?

I looked through CAPR 52-16 and I saw no specific prohibition against it, and I figured it would be something good to offer to those cadets who have that drive for drill, but have no real competitive way to be recognized for it with the demise of the NCC.

I spoke with an AFJROTC instructor I know from my cadet days in JROTC, and he seemed to think it would be a good idea as well, if nothing else then keeping it in town or in the local area to avoid racking up too much of a bill on the vans or having other schools see the CAP cadets being brought in as ringers.

Thoughts?

[lordmonar]

Sure thing.....it is something local units should be looking into NCC or no NCC.

[Noble Six]

I have done it before.  Entered teams into color guard, physical fitness teams, and orienteering r.  Just familiarize yourself with the districts  competitive governing body to ensure the cadets meet the eligibility requirements.

[a2capt]

..and their rules are different, so make sure they're read well.

Moves, things allowed and dis-allowed during exhibition, etc.

[MHC5096]

My former unit did this before as well. In fact one year our color guard came very close to participating in the National High School Drill Team Competition (NHSDTC) sponsored by Sports Network International in Daytona Beach. Unfortunately, we had a logistical issue with travel that prevented us from going.

[PHall]

Biggest problem I've seen with CAP participating in JROTC Drill Meets are all of the "Why can't we do armed drill?" questions you get from the CAP cadets after they see the JROTC Armed Drill Teams.
Telling them that it's not allowed under the CAP Regs usually doesn't satisfy them!

[lordmonar]

Biggest problem I've seen with CAP participating in JROTC Drill Meets are all of the "Why can't we do armed drill?" questions you get from the CAP cadets after they see the JROTC Armed Drill Teams.
Telling them that it's not allowed under the CAP Regs usually doesn't satisfy them!

??  CAP regs don't prohibit armed drill......NCC just does not have an armed drill category.
'

[Alderman]

My former unit did this before as well. In fact one year our color guard came very close to participating in the National High School Drill Team Competition (NHSDTC) sponsored by Sports Network International in Daytona Beach. Unfortunately, we had a logistical issue with travel that prevented us from going.

I'm a new SM with 6+ years in the Army National Guard in Oregon. I also serve as a volunteer coach/instructor of a local Army JROTC Drill Team & Color Guard program. I also professionally consult in military drill and ceremonies, including for police and fire. Basically I lives and breath and coach 5 days a week.

We just started a Color Guard program in our squadron and I have almost finished final approach for our cadets to enter 2 color guards in the Cascade Mountains League, a league formed by various JROTC units of each service branch from around Oregon and Washington. Formally many of these JROTC units were part of 1 of 3 divisions of the Northwest Drill & Rifle Conference. We have decided not to get involved in the officially hosted Army Cadet Command competitions within our Brigade, mostly due to the fact that all the Army Schools are already in the League which is much better anyway. 

The JROTC program I'm with also competes at the National High School Drill Team Competition (NHSDTC) hosted in Daytona as well. We took 4th place in Unarmed Drill Team this last year, to bad you guys didn't make it.

I hear a lot about the NCC of CAP not being that great, which is a reason they stopped the national level competition for a couple years. From reviewing the NCC it doesn't seem to be setup very well, especially in the drill side, compared to even our local league and the NHSDTC.

The cool thing about the Cascade Mountains League is they have Color Guard, Drill Teams (armed/unarmed), Individual and Dual Exhibition Drill (armed/unarmed), Physical Training Teams, Air-rifle Teams. The JROTC program I coach at has teams in all categories, and their air-rifle team does a lot in the Joint JROTC, Army JROTC, and CMP competitions around the nation.


Overall I think CAP needs to really start following what it claims about joint activities such as this with JROTC programs. Many of these programs are much bigger than local CAP cadet units and can really help them out. Also helps when you get a SM who might be either a volunteer instructor or even one of the actual JROTC Instructors who are 20+ years retired military. Hopefully we can get our cadets in our CAP Sqdn more involved within this league and maybe by next year have another team for air-rifle, PT, or Drill Team instead of just Color Guard.

Fun part of this for me. I'm now coaching two color guard programs that will compete    . It's all about the kids though. Without more of this I believe our squadron which has grown by 30% since May of this year will not retain the cadets. It's hard with a composite squadron when it seems to many seniors don't really want to take the effort to make new and fun things happen for cadets.

[Eclipse]

Many of these programs are much bigger than local CAP cadet units and can really help them out.

With what?

[Alderman]

Many of these programs are much bigger than local CAP cadet units and can really help them out.

With what?

Membership (leads to dual involvement by cadets), logistical support, joint training. Even though my JROTC cadets will compete against our CAP cadets, they have come to help out or CAP cadets. For travel to our drill meets which are all over OR and WA our JROTC program can help provide space in our travel trailers for gear since our CAP cadets will travel with only one 12 passenger van. The CAP unit also doesn't raise anywhere near the amount my JROTC cadets do in fundraising. Our JROTC program has 200 cadets with about 80 that are involved in the special activities. So for our squadron of 42 has about 10 involved in Color Guard.

Most instructors are happy to help those in other programs get things going for those other cadets. Our  Army JROTC and CAP unit also helped a new AFJROTC in our city that started at another high school this last year.

[Eclipse]

That's only helping a CAP unit with participating in the drill comp, which is circular to that activity.

How does participating in an outside drill competition help the CAP unit meet its goals and mission objectives?

For the majority of the conversations, JROTC and CAP are not comparable programs in scope or mission.

[Elioron]

How does participating in an outside drill competition help the CAP unit meet its goals and mission objectives?

Directly, it would provide the same benefit as NCC.  Indirectly, it provides exposure for CAP and increases our reputation in the community which can bolster recruiting & retention and even fund-raising.

[Alderman]

How does participating in an outside drill competition help the CAP unit meet its goals and mission objectives?

Directly, it would provide the same benefit as NCC.  Indirectly, it provides exposure for CAP and increases our reputation in the community which can bolster recruiting & retention and even fund-raising.

Exactly. Anyone here from a Squadron in Oregon or Washington with an interest in getting cadets involved in a quality drill competition, or even PT competition?

[lordmonar]

That's only helping a CAP unit with participating in the drill comp, which is circular to that activity.

How does participating in an outside drill competition help the CAP unit meet its goals and mission objectives?

For the majority of the conversations, JROTC and CAP are not comparable programs in scope or mission.

Preparing for a competition will motivate the cadets to focus more on their drill.

While I get your point that we should not focus on drill to the exclusion of all the rest.....participating in a completion (either internal or external) is not bad thing.....it ups the cadet's game, which is a good thing.

Now the question is of course about cost vs benefit.   What gets put to the back burner as you gear up for the comp?  That question is best answered at the local level...with over sight by the group/wing CP office.

[tgbriggs16]

That's only helping a CAP unit with participating in the drill comp, which is circular to that activity.

How does participating in an outside drill competition help the CAP unit meet its goals and mission objectives?

For the majority of the conversations, JROTC and CAP are not comparable programs in scope or mission.

They are incredibly comparable and complement each other greatly. I am the group commander at the new AFJROTC Alderman was talking about, and simultaneously I also am the cadet commander at his squadron. I live and breathe all the differences and similarities of JROTC and CAP in my day to day life. There are incredible differences in means of teaching the same thing only. JROTCs have much more direct support from the branches, but by that, are also much more heavily regulated to have a set curriculum and attendance standards. The demographics of Junior ROTCs are also greatly different than that of CAP. JROTCs bring in students who are integrated into cadet life on a massive scale for a minimum of one class period per set. This style of curriculum provides a minimalist opportunity for the students (who often take two years to think of themselves as cadets) who want it, while others focus on the "fun things" like drill, PT, and marksmanship.

CAP, on the other hand, is much more formal while also being more flexible. Our rank structure is completely different then theirs, where position appointed is the determining factor for rank rather than testing for each achievement with time in grade, etc. This leads to a self paced program that teaches the same things in a more regulated way, while also allowing us to think out of the box and pick from ES, aviation, leadership, drill, fitness, and survival for our focuses. These activities with our regulated core of advancement provide a balance that can allow us to support the mission of the cadet program in the best way for our cadets, which we all know differs from squadron to squadron and wing to wing.

Directly responding to your question, These drill meets have the same purpose as our deteriorating NCC (of which I have gone to region for color guard twice, so I offer another real-life perspective). Our NCC is a fantastic competition that lost its ability to be 'fun' because it focuses so hard on an idealistic point of view of the time we have to spend on color guard auxiliary functions, such as the multiple written facets and poorly regulated drill explanations. JROTC drill meets still forward camaraderie and teamwork while catering to a high school teenager audience. It is   slightly on the lower end for color guard, but this really comes out with drill teams who have to know everything about each other to succeed--the ultimatum of teamwork that we stress so much in CAP (encampment, anyone?).

In dry prose, here is a CAP cadet program mission statement next to the AFJROTC mission statement: KYWG: The CAP Cadet Program is designed to motivate and develop well-rounded young people, who in turn will become model citizens and the future leaders of our nation. AFJROTC: To develop citizens of character dedicated to serving their community and nation.

As far as scope, both of our programs our nationally widespread.

These are incredibly similar in purpose, therefore we can only benefit from dual participation and cooperation such these drill meets. CAPR 52-16, ch 10 part 1: The CAP
Cadet Program and JROTC organizations of the armed services (Air Force JROTC, Army JROTC,
Navy JROTC and Marine Corps JROTC) are complementary and mutually supporting. CAP
encourages support of JROTC through dual membership of CAP cadets, whenever possible.

I am personally excited to see where my squadron can go with this as it has improved morale and motivation in the squadron, I hope others will consider similar participation.