Uniforms and Rank/Grade

[Shuman 14]

Take the conversation to "weigh in or take it off", and no one wants to be bothered.

Silly question but if an actual member of the Air Force does make weight... what uniform do they wear?

(Yes I'm being a smart [Filter Subversion].  )

[Eclipse]

Civilian clothes.

The USAF (fairly) recently went to much more strict PT standards including hard-stop measurements.  Bust one of the measurements and
you don't even need to bother with the rest of the tests, you're out.

It's killed more then a few careers.

[Shuman 14]

I know that, the Army has height and weight standards too, but until they're actually out-processed from the USAF, they a strill required to come to work in a proper uniform.

Also, it takes about a year to out-process someone in the Army for not making weight, how long does it take the Air Force?

[Walkman]

The USAF (fairly) recently went to much more strict PT standards including hard-stop measurements.  Bust one of the measurements and
you don't even need to bother with the rest of the tests, you're out.

It's killed more then a few careers.

There has been a recent change in this. Starting 1 Oct. if you bust the waist measurement, they do a DoD BMI tape test. If you pass that, you're good to go, and if you pass the other portions of the PT test, but don't make weight it is no longer a full PT failure. Also, you have 4 tries over 24 months to make H/W and pass PT before you are going to be separated.

http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/466914/af-announces-pt-test-enhancements-to-start-oct-1.aspx

[Eclipse]

The USAF (fairly) recently went to much more strict PT standards including hard-stop measurements.  Bust one of the measurements and
you don't even need to bother with the rest of the tests, you're out.

It's killed more then a few careers.

There has been a recent change in this. Starting 1 Oct. if you bust the waist measurement, they do a DoD BMI tape test. If you pass that, you're good to go, and if you pass the other portions of the PT test, but don't make weight it is no longer a full PT failure. Also, you have 4 tries over 24 months to make H/W and pass PT before you are going to be separated.

http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/466914/af-announces-pt-test-enhancements-to-start-oct-1.aspx

Good - someone saw the light.  Too bad for all the guys that got bounced in the interim.

[Walkman]

Good - someone saw the light.  Too bad for all the guys that got bounced in the interim.

Not to take this OT, but the more I encounter Gen. Welsh, the more I'm impressed.

[PHall]

The USAF (fairly) recently went to much more strict PT standards including hard-stop measurements.  Bust one of the measurements and
you don't even need to bother with the rest of the tests, you're out.

It's killed more then a few careers.

There has been a recent change in this. Starting 1 Oct. if you bust the waist measurement, they do a DoD BMI tape test. If you pass that, you're good to go, and if you pass the other portions of the PT test, but don't make weight it is no longer a full PT failure. Also, you have 4 tries over 24 months to make H/W and pass PT before you are going to be separated.

http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/466914/af-announces-pt-test-enhancements-to-start-oct-1.aspx

Good - someone saw the light.  Too bad for all the guys that got bounced in the interim.

All it took was a Wing Commander getting zapped and poof!  Reg change!

[Eclipse]

Seriously.  Lord knows how much we invested in him, the guy passed PT, too.

I hate to think of the skill drain because of this.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The comments on that article reminded me of CAPtalk!

[abdsp51]

There is no weight standard for the AF unless you are trying to enlist.

[jeders]

The comments on that article reminded me of CAPtalk!

Actually some of those comments make CAPTalk look like a realm of calm sanity.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The comments on that article reminded me of CAPtalk!

Actually some of those comments make CAPTalk look like a realm of calm sanity.

That they do! AND someone brought up looking good in uniform.

[stillamarine]

You know, if we put in even half the energy into say...finding alternate funding or making inroads to new missions as we do uniforms...

"Endless possibilities captain"

I personally think if there weren't anything to debate about uniforms that captalk would die.

[sarmed1]

It is (was soon to be?) only about waist measurement-if your below waist area was larger than your waist you would still pass) and much like the failing CC, many folks I have talked to fail to see how if you can perform all of the tests besides waist to a passing level how it should matter what you waist size is? 

Personally as an AF member I dont understand why CAP hasnt updated that portion of the regulation to some sort of middle ground.

Either a-if you are over this weight you must be under this body % or b-someone (commander) has to sign off that "you present an appropriate appearance in uniform" blah, blah......

For the record based on H/W if I were to return to CAP status from my AF position I woul be required to wear BBDU's.... yet in the USAF world I am fine

mk

[Eclipse]

For the record based on H/W if I were to return to CAP status from my AF position I woul be required to wear BBDU's.... yet in the USAF world I am fine

So we're back to having an essentially more stringent standard then the USAF for the same uniform and without a general culture of fitness for duty.

Excellent.

[ZigZag911]

A couple of points:

1) All the services, including Guard and Reserve components, get tougher about weight standards whenever they are trying to reduce the number of personnel in the force. It has proven a quick, convenient way of getting rid of people. Not nice, not pleasant, rather draconian, but that's what DOD chooses to do. I don't know if this is official policy or simply how things are done, but it is.

2) There are continual reports and studies indicating Americans are getting heavier. CAP is no different. Observation at almost any large scale CAP activity demonstrates this.

3) Commanders who do not address issues regarding proper uniform wear are derelict in their duty. Yeah, it's not easy, but still needs to be done.

4) Senior CAP officers -- especially those wearing the eagles or silver oak leaves -- who do not adhere to the regs themselves are a disgrace...they do not lead by personal example, and enable junior personnel to flut the rules themselves.

Having said all this, and having had the pleasure of wearing the USAF style uniform long ago as a cadet, I still favor corporate only for all CAP senior members.

[MHC5096]

Sadly I know more than a few Air Force Reserve Master Sergeants that got the boot because they didn't pass the PT test.

One had a little over 17 years and was denied re-enlistment. I went round and round with the commander trying to convince him to let the guy re-enlist, but the Lieutenant Colonel wasn't hearing it. Claimed he wanted to make an example.

If the MSgt had hit the 18 year mark he would have been in Sanctuary and allowed to stay until 20.

Ironically this very same Lieutenant Colonel had been on a medical waiver for a couple of years and was forced out a year later for not being able to pass the PT test. Karma can be a [censored].

[Luis R. Ramos]

I think I will ask at the next SAREX I attend, to serve salads for lunch. And I may get kicked out when I suggest cereal for breakfast.

Last several SAREX I attended, they got bagels, doughnuts and coffee in the AM. And pizza for lunch.

Still the idea of having cereal and coffee although healthier, somehow I cannot compute... I think bagels, donuts, and coffee is what I will keep seeing.

Flyer

[sarmed1]

For the record based on H/W if I were to return to CAP status from my AF position I woul be required to wear BBDU's.... yet in the USAF world I am fine

So we're back to having an essentially more stringent standard then the USAF for the same uniform and without a general culture of fitness for duty.

Excellent.

My guess is that in part it's not a matter of intentionlally creating a more stringant standard but a-no one really updating a CAP needed change based on a USAF change ( USAF weight management program vs AF fitness program) b-without some harsh cultural changes there is no way to realistically enforce a CAP "fitness" program  that would override the previous H/W standard, so it ws just easier in program management to "forget" to update that into an actual health/fitness program that holds any kind of "enforcement" power.


mk

[Eclipse]

For the record based on H/W if I were to return to CAP status from my AF position I woul be required to wear BBDU's.... yet in the USAF world I am fine

So we're back to having an essentially more stringent standard then the USAF for the same uniform and without a general culture of fitness for duty.

Excellent.

My guess is that in part it's not a matter of intentionlally creating a more stringant standard but a-no one really updating a CAP needed change based on a USAF change ( USAF weight management program vs AF fitness program) b-without some harsh cultural changes there is no way to realistically enforce a CAP "fitness" program  that would override the previous H/W standard, so it ws just easier in program management to "forget" to update that into an actual health/fitness program that holds any kind of "enforcement" power.

I agree, though this has been pointed out numerous times before the USAF started doing the waist measurements, etc.

That it's easier just to have a chart is certainly true, but more options for members would show that NHQ at least acknowledges the issue.