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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: "You can be my wingman anytime."
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Stonewall
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« on: August 23, 2013, 02:49:17 PM »

I have noticed something over the course of the last three months while on orders at my Guard unit. Every time Marine Corps jets land, they always do a flyby first before they land.  And they always fly in pairs.  I have not noticed the same thing from Air Force aircraft.

I have seen AF jets in pairs, but they aren't always that way.  But I have never seen a Marine Corps jet without a wingman.

Any of you military fly guys have an opinion or firsthand knowledge on this? 
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PHall
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« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2013, 08:47:01 PM »

That's not a "fly by", they're doing an overhead approach. It's a fighter thing.
Flying in pairs is also a "Fighter Thing".
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a2capt
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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2013, 08:53:19 PM »

Overhead approach, so they can see exactly what they are getting into.
Making their impending arrival known.
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Critical AOA
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2013, 10:17:19 PM »


It's a flyby.  It's their way of screaming "hey look at me, I fly jets".   No tactical need to see what they are getting into at a civilian field in the USA. 
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"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."   - George Bernard Shaw
a2capt
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2013, 11:36:35 PM »

Other than "practice", 'cause I've only ever seen it at a military field, or an air show.
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PHall
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2013, 12:55:50 AM »

Other than "practice", 'cause I've only ever seen it at a military field, or an air show.

An overhead approach is the standard visual approach for fighter aircraft.

About the only time you don't see them do it is when they're directed by the tower to make a strfaight in approach only or if it's IFR and they're doing an ILS or a TACAN approach.

And I've seen plenty of overheads done at civilian airfields. Happens mostly at airports that also host an ANG fighter unit too.

Done more then a few in C-141's, usually when we're doing "tactical" stuff like airdrops and stuff.
(250 KIAS, throttles idle at approach end, gear and approach flaps on the downwind and landing flaps on short final.)
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JeffDG
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2013, 10:34:06 AM »


It's a flyby.  It's their way of screaming "hey look at me, I fly jets".   No tactical need to see what they are getting into at a civilian field in the USA.
Yes, of course.  They should do things differently here than in theater...that way they'll always do it right.

Two reasons to do an overhead in the US:
1)  Train the way you fight
2)  It is an efficient way to break formation and achieve appropriate separation for landing. 
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SunDog
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Posts: 478

« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2013, 04:28:42 PM »

Don't know about current generation procedures, but as the previous poster said, it was done as SOP in Century series fighters as a way to gain seperation in the landing sequence effciently, and so conserve fuel. Fuel was almost always foremost as a concern in the Century series. It was also cool, and fun, but getting down quickly was the main reason.
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Flying Pig
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2013, 07:14:07 PM »

Motoring in on final in an F15 at approach speed burns a whole-lotta-gas. Keeping your speed up to the airport gets you there faster and is more efficient. The break bleeds off speed.  Its a fast way to get a lot of aircraft close to the airport and on the ground quickly.   The f16s at Fresno do it multiple times per day and almost always ask for the "SFO" Simulated Flame Out. 
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BHartman007
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Ellington Composite Squadron
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2013, 07:16:34 PM »

The F16s do (or did, before they took them away and gave us drones) this here at the local ANG base every time. Usually in pairs, but often in groups of three or four.
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Mustang
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« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2013, 03:16:08 AM »


The f16s at Fresno do it multiple times per day and almost always ask for the "SFO" Simulated Flame Out.
Though SFOs and overhead patterns have similarities, they are completely different approach procedures serving completely different purposes.  The SFO is a practice emergency procedure where the overhead is a standard VFR traffic pattern that (as others have pointed out) is an efficient means of sequencing any quantity of multi-ship flights into an airfield and inserting appropriate spacing for landing.
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"Amateurs train until they get it right; Professionals train until they cannot get it wrong. "

PHall
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« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2013, 11:06:49 AM »

They might ask for a SFO, doen't mean that the tower approved it though.
But F-16 drivers do have to log a certain number of them each quarter for currency purposes.
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: "You can be my wingman anytime."
 


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