No More NCC

[a2capt]

The teams all need to be judged by the same panel, so that the same viewpoints are applied to each team.

My score of 80 is not the same as your score of 80. Even if we are using the same score sheets.

[Eclipse]

The teams all need to be judged by the same panel, so that the same viewpoints are applied to each team.

My score of 80 is not the same as your score of 80. Even if we are using the same score sheets.

Is it really that subjective? And if it is, does it need to be?

Academic and PT scores (if they went from games to grade-appropriate PT) would be wholly objective, so that only leaves the
posting and drill.  Couldn't timing proper commands be used in lieu of more subjective criteria?

I mean frankly we haven't had very good luck the last few years with the objective stuff, so even that's a problem as is.

[a2capt]

Innovative Drill is just that, and for Color Guard, the Indoor & Outdoor Posting are also innovative.

Panel Quiz would need to be changed out with something else, as remote games are kind of tough.

Inspection on both parts, sure there's points on the sheet. But again, that's subjective to view, quality of eyeballs, etc.

[Eclipse]

Hmmm...not sure how you crack this then.  We see the same problem with trade shows - it costs what it costs
and transportation is the killer.  You can spread the love to a lot of little costs, or just right one big check, but
on the budget sheets the numbers are the same.

You'd have to do some hard math to see if sending say 4-6 people in a scoring team to 8 Regions was cheaper then
having 40-60 people come to a central place, not to mention that it would take probably a couple of months to finish all the scoring,
so between local, wing and region comps, you'd probably be doing competitions nearly year round somewhere or another.

[NC Hokie]

NCC for 1991 and 1992 is a sensitive subject for Flying Pig and myself.

An easy band aid would be to send judges to each region and score the cadets on the events. They could score each event (minus panel quiz) and total for National results.

That's actually a really good idea, and/or just have them judged locally by knowledgeable people from other organizations.
There are non-military drill teams all over the place, not to mention military teams, etc.

Send or enter the score somewhere, rinse, repeat.

Local service, national impact.

I have to disagree here.  Judges see things differently, even if the published standards are the same.  If you're not using the same judges for all teams, you're introducing the possibility that some teams will face "harder" judges than others, skewing the competition towards the teams that get the "easier" judges.

ETA that I didn't see the previous replies mentioning this before putting in my own two cents.

[Mitchell 1969]

NCC for 1991 and 1992 is a sensitive subject for Flying Pig and myself.

An easy band aid would be to send judges to each region and score the cadets on the events. They could score each event (minus panel quiz) and total for National results.

That's actually a really good idea, and/or just have them judged locally by knowledgeable people from other organizations.
There are non-military drill teams all over the place, not to mention military teams, etc.

Send or enter the score somewhere, rinse, repeat.

Local service, national impact.

I have to disagree here.  Judges see things differently, even if the published standards are the same.  If you're not using the same judges for all teams, you're introducing the possibility that some teams will face "harder" judges than others, skewing the competition towards the teams that get the "easier" judges.

ETA that I didn't see the previous replies mentioning this before putting in my own two cents.

A good judging team will be in sync with each other. If I'm a particularly strict grader on inspection or column movements, for example, it doesn't matter, as long as I'm equally strict with all teams and I see all teams. But if the next team over doesn't have a judge like me, but has a guy who likes to give "half points" or something, then whatever comparable team that he judges will have an advantage.

[Ned]

For many of the same reasons, PCR looked long and hard at a "send the judges to the teams" model, could never come close to making it work.  Assuming the judging crew could see two different teams in a weekend, that still means a spread of 3-4 weeks to get it done.  That of course means that the last team will have an extra month to practice, and may even have the benefit of seeing a tape of an earlier teams performance.  And of course spreading the competion out over a number of weeks greatly increases the chances of losing/swapping out a judge due to illness, sudden work conflicts, whatever.

And once the judging crew starts to vary, it becomes almost impossible.

Then add in climatic and venue differences and it gets pretty tricky.

We have done a YouTube competition for the subjective portions, where each team tapes a performance simultaneously and uploads it for remote judging.  That actually worked out better than I thought it would.

Still haven't figured out how to do volleyball remotely.

[Eclipse]

We have done a YouTube competition for the subjective portions, where each team tapes a performance simultaneously and uploads it for remote judging.  That actually worked out better than I thought it would.

This is a really good idea, and pretty simple these days.

Still haven't figured out how to do volleyball remotely.

What does volleyball have to do with CAP and drill?  Why not move to grade appropriate PT and base the scores on that.
It's directly connected to CAP, encourages fitness, and helps with progression.

[NIN]

<facepalm>  I just realized I had a paradigm staring me in the face that I totally forgot about!

In skydiving, at least before the Internet was a "BigDeal™" the US Parachute Association regions would have "Fax Meets" for different kinds of formation skydiving competitions (4-way and 8-way, essentially) among the DZs in the region.  You'd have someone locally who could judge, and in the morning all the DZs participating would get the competition's dive pool (the formations that every team would do for each round) faxed to them along with the rules. 

The teams would go up and jump, and each round would be judged (by the local "USPA competition judge" or someone else who was sufficiently knowledgeable) and the results faxed around to the other DZs or whomever was coordinating/Chief Judging the meet.

At the end of the day, the results were tallied and the winners announced.

Now, this was before things like YouTube, etc and 10 guys on an 8-way team with GoPros glued to their noggins, and high-speed internet...

[a2capt]

But are you dealing with numbers or innovative routines?
The idea is to appeal to the judges. You can't do that with different viewpoints.

The video submission with the drill team works. The teams have to do it just like being at a common location. They have one shot, they have to report at a specific time, and there's no re-do. 

The angles are pre-determined with the camera placement, and those videos are all judged by the same panel at a point after all of them have been submitted, which they need to be submitted by a specific time frame.

The filming is handled by others not related to the team, but sent there to act as event marshalers and to certify that it was done one time, this is it, etc. The major difference being the location of each.

[Eclipse]

Ned may have hit on the solution.

2-3 cell phone cameras in a standard position to memorialize the event, and
one remote judge on a video chat watching to insure everyone is following the rules,
not doing it more then once, etc.

[NIN]

2-3 GoPros (dead on, one corner, another corner) and you're good.

One guy uploads the vids to the judges.

[NC Hokie]

The filming is handled by others not related to the team, but sent there to act as event marshalers and to certify that it was done one time, this is it, etc. The major difference being the location of each.

High schools, colleges, and rec centers tend to have indoor basketball courts that are all the same size, and they even come with well marked boundaries that make it pretty easy for judges to see if the team goes out of bounds.  The placement of the cameras could also be standardized to ensure that the performances are as identically staged as possible.

[SarDragon]

Most of the places I know of with indoor BB courts abhor street shoes on the playing floor. Drill movements are especially hard on the finish.

[Mitchell 1969]

Most of the places I know of with indoor BB courts abhor street shoes on the playing floor. Drill movements are especially hard on the finish.

And thus was born...the Sock Comp.

[NC Hokie]

Most of the places I know of with indoor BB courts abhor street shoes on the playing floor. Drill movements are especially hard on the finish.

So they wear tennis shoes after the uniform inspection is done.  I must be doing something wrong if this is the biggest objection! 

[PHall]

Most of the places I know of with indoor BB courts abhor street shoes on the playing floor. Drill movements are especially hard on the finish.

So they wear tennis shoes after the uniform inspection is done.  I must be doing something wrong if this is the biggest objection! 

You ever try to drill in tennis shoes? Facing movements tend to be a bit "sticky".

[SarDragon]

Most of the places I know of with indoor BB courts abhor street shoes on the playing floor. Drill movements are especially hard on the finish.

So they wear tennis shoes after the uniform inspection is done.  I must be doing something wrong if this is the biggest objection! 

You ever try to drill in tennis shoes? Facing movements tend to be a bit "sticky".

I certainly have, and those facing movements became a circus of awkward squeaks. Marching turns didn't do much better. There would a bunch of knee and ankle injuries.

[a2capt]

..and you can use an outdoor basketball court, too. 

But that still does not help for panel quiz and volleyball.

..and with Inspection being a close up event, scanning each cadet with a camera, a ruler, and lines on the ground to show where they fell in, foot position, and an overall camera to allow for movements to be visible.

A 3rd of the event can be done without anyone else. Written exam and Mile Run can be proctored by a local TCO and the results scanned and sent in.

The drill and performance events can be done with cameras and field specs decided on so that the vantage points and visuals are identical for the judges to see the same from everyone, again proctored by local TCO's or similar, down to the time of performance being predetermined by the event officials so that any performance after that would be considered "late" just as if they were late in their start position, and penalized accordingly.

Which leaves Panel Quiz and Volleyball. Color Guard doesn't do Volleyball, instead they have two different presentation events, so while Color Guard would almost be easier to be done entirely via remote, Color Guard is an easy 1 day plus the afternoon/evening before, on an optimized schedule.

[Eclipse]

Effective immediately and continuing during this off year a group of dedicated individuals from each region and our NHQ staff will take a hard look at how we can best reorganize this premier CAP National Cadet Special Activity.

The primary rationale for this strategic pause is funding and an overall restructure so we can include more cadets at all levels of competition.  NCC, in its current format is an expensive program for our organization. Despite significant internal restructuring to the schedule, competition location and the Staff's creative measures, NCC has become one of the most expensive cadet activities, with CAP National Headquarters executing a budget of nearly $130,000 annually from an ever-tightening budget for national cadet activities. Unfortunately, financial realities drive cadet activity decisions to a large extent.

Can anyone verify this from another official source?

Not denying it, but I haven't seen anything on this from NHQ, and it appears more then one wing
is proceeding as if there is no change.   Someone updated Wikipedia, but I can't find a single authoritative mention.