Dump the Find Ribbon?

[Майор Хаткевич]

My first find was on a sarex. Basically 200ft from the base. Also got asked to prom that day, and started dating my wife the next day. That's a find ribbon (29MAR08) I will never forget.

[bosshawk]

Distress or non?

[lordmonar]

Just wondering what everyone's opinion is on dumping some of the ES ribbons, like the Find ribbon.

I feel that the Find ribbon should be retired to history along with the WWII ribbons. As a whole, CAP's mission has been moving away from the SAR aspect, and more into Homeland Security and some Disaster Relief (depending where you live).

I would love to earn the Find ribbon and the SAR ribbon, because, to me, someone who has earned those ribbons really has a grasp on how to do the ground team or air crew mission. But unfortunately, due to many factors outside of anyone's control, it is just not possible for most CAP members to earn most of the ES ribbons.

I earned my find just a couple of years ago.  I know that they award finds to CAP crews and GT all the time.  Getting SAR/DHS/CD/DR(with V) are all just a matter of doing real missions.........and I got both my SAR and my DHS ribbons.

So....all the ES ribbons are fairly easy to earn.....just get the training and endure the GOB to get called out on missions.

The whole saying "train the way we fight" only works for so long. One can attend every SAREX that is sent their way, and find complete every task presented to them. But without actual missions, you just aren't getting the same ES experience. I've been in CAP for a number of years now, and not once been on a mission or even called on standby for one. I've had a ground team rating for about a year, and haven't done anything with it because it has taken me even longer to try and get my MRO and CUL qualifications.

So, what do others think? Do we still need ribbons that can't be earned anymore?

??  It is a good thing that your state does not have enough emergencies that your services are not called.

Either way......none of this has anything to do with the find ribbon.  Why attach that ribbon when what you are really complaining about is "I did all this training.......and now no one calls me so I can put it to good use".

Want to take that argument on.....well....we can do that.  Leave the Find Ribbon alone.

[jimmydeanno]

I have about 23 non-distress finds.  I got many of them (about 18) as a cadet.  The first one was on New Years Eve 2007.  Called out for an ELT, only ground team in the wing.  Drove 2 hours to a fairly populated airport.  It was -30F degrees that night.  Shut off the ELT, went home. 

Not everyone has one, but those who do have certainly earned them, considering they are a representation of what we are actually supposed to be doing - finding people.  They are rare in certain areas, and there are people who will never ever get one.  Those are the dice.  I don't complain that they should eliminate the Spaatz Award because I'll never get one.

[Al Sayre]

I've got 4 or 5 non-distress "finds" on the same ARNG Blackhawk over about a year period...

[Eclipse]

I've got 4 or 5 non-distress "finds" on the same ARNG Blackhawk over about a year period...

We has a Cessna 152 on a local airport that was a Find factory for a while.

[a2capt]

Just like an evacuation raft facility nearby here that for a while.. had some sloppy workers.

[Garibaldi]

The best place for a cheap find is the EAA Precautionary SAR in WIWG. Camped out at Fond du Lac airport, you are guaranteed at least 5 "finds" when pilots in a hurry forget to a) close out their flight plan, b) forget to call the wife to tell them they landed safely, and c) hard landings causing the ELT to go off. I have about...ten? that way

[Devil Doc]

I've been in CAP a Year Now. No Find Ribbons. On Standby Once. It really dosn't help though when I cant go on missions unless it is after work or on weekends. Also, We have a Squadron that is 3 times our size with 5-6 pilots about 40 mins east from us, they get 90% of the missions.

[♠SARKID♠]

I pick up a couple non-distress a year.  I'll be darned if I let somebody take 'em away.

[Eclipse]

Setting aside wings with "issues", I'd say that the Lifesaving ribbon is probably the only one that is "hard" to get.
(well, other then the DR which is technically not achievable as written right now).

The SAR, Find, DR-V, and even the CD ribbon are all pretty much there for the taking thanks to Mother Nature having a
stick up her butt the last 5-10 years and NHQ's emphasis on growing the CD mission.

Not all wings are doing HLS stuff, but most could if they were so inclined.

As I've said here before, when I joined in 99, I was told "no one ever gets the DR-V", and the Find ribbons seemed to
be limited to a somewhat small group (who always got first call).   Neither of those is true anymore.

There >is< a legit issue of commanders and staff not caring enough to process decorations and/or providing
proper PA's, etc.  That's not cool.

[kd8gua]

I would live to know where these generalizations hold true. I've been in CAP twice. Once from 2002 - 2005, and now since 2010. Across that, I've been in 3 different units, none of which were ever tasked on missions during my tenure. So if someone can help with which wings do stuff... maybe I can be tasked to go out of wing to do stuff.

[LGM30GMCC]

WYWG just had a SAR tasking recently. We responded fairly quickly, found a target matching the description the local sheriff tasked us to find (just not the one we were hoping to find), and then had to quickly RTB.

Note to pilots: Please try to avoid 45 degree turns with little warning when your observer is slightly askew in their seat. It lowers the chances of a mess being made.

[sardak]

I would live to know where these generalizations hold true. I've been in CAP twice. Once from 2002 - 2005, and now since 2010. Across that, I've been in 3 different units, none of which were ever tasked on missions during my tenure. So if someone can help with which wings do stuff... maybe I can be tasked to go out of wing to do stuff.

From AFRCC annual reports:
2011 OHWG had 19 missions, more than 39 other wings
2010 OHWG had 20 missions, more than 39 other wings
2009 OHWG had 13 missions, more than 25 other wings

The report only lists the number of saves (0 for OHWG in all three years), so no idea how many were finds, but I would put money on more than zero.

And since you wanted to know, our wing has had 10 missions with finds so far this year, no saves.

Mike

[vento]

I would live to know where these generalizations hold true. I've been in CAP twice. Once from 2002 - 2005, and now since 2010. Across that, I've been in 3 different units, none of which were ever tasked on missions during my tenure. So if someone can help with which wings do stuff... maybe I can be tasked to go out of wing to do stuff.

From WMIRS
CAWG currently has 35 finds and 2 saves Credited by AFRCC

[wuzafuzz]

I would live to know where these generalizations hold true. I've been in CAP twice. Once from 2002 - 2005, and now since 2010. Across that, I've been in 3 different units, none of which were ever tasked on missions during my tenure. So if someone can help with which wings do stuff... maybe I can be tasked to go out of wing to do stuff.

Does your wing have a defined alerting system?  Does your squadron participate in that system?  If not, you might start there. If you learn there are missions to be had within a reasonable distance, train up a team (if you haven't done so already), advertise your readiness within your wing or group, and get on the alerting list.

I know people in my wing who didn't know about our alerting procedures.  They wondered why they never got called.  A little information resolved that issue.  Make sure you know what you are doing; don't be the resource a frustrated IC has to send home and replace.

Keep the Find Ribbon.  Just last week 6 people in my squadron participated in a find related to an off airport landing/mishap.  Missions happen.

[Woodsy]

There's a certain area in South Florida that has a very high Ops tempo of ELT searches.  Seems they're out there every other week at least.  It's so much higher than other comparable areas within the state that many are convinced there is a secret squirrel "Group X Plane Kicking Squad." 

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

In Oct 2004 as my long suffering Red Sox were about to start the game that won them their first World Series in 80+ years my phone rings. It's the Wing ES officer with an ELT mission. I heard the final out riding in a CAP van on I95 in Providence RI. I think I'll keep that Find Ribbon, thank you.

[lordmonar]

We just had an ELT mission here in NVWG......two aircraft were launched and as they were tracking down the ELT signal they got notified of a second ELT in the area.....both were found and silenced.

So we are still producing finds.

A year in CAP is not too long to wait for a find.

CAP is not perfect......find out how your wing works....get on the call out list.  Make changes as you find problems.

[kd8gua]

My unit has very qualified GT personnel, mission pilot, scanners and observers, we even have an IC. I don't know the full procedure for being called, though I can probably look it up. I know that in the year and a half I've started working towards various mission base qualifications, there haven't been any missions in my part of the wing. Some of the issue with that (the only time I'll ever insinuate having too many units could be a problem) is the number of units. In my city, we have 6 units with a 30 mile drive of downtown. There are plenty of local units to where these calls may be initiated from. I do know that the highway patrol has jurisdiction over all aircraft crashes in Ohio, so when one goes down, typically someone sees or hears it, they call 911, 911 calls the highway patrol, which sends their planes and troopers out to find the scene, secure, and coordinate with rescue teams and the FAA as needed. So they basically do CAPs job unless CAP  gets there first.

Also, rookie question I'm sure, but where can I find the AFRCC reports previously mentioned?