Help needed

[SARguyFVCS]

Hey guys so here's the deal. The senior members at my squadron are not willing to cooperate or even participate with the cadets at our squadron. They dont do anything for us and our squadron is begining to lose cadets because the seinors pick and fill our scheduale but put boring meaningless activities in them just to have us do something. The cadet commander doesn't do anything because she is going to the airforce academy and these meaninlgless tasks are hurting the retention numbers in our squadron. Other than forming a new cadet squadron or flight or telling the cadet commander, what else could we do(as exec. staff)?

[Eclipse]

You and your parents need to sit down with the CC and discuss this directly.

Clearly you and your CC have different ideas about what CAP is about.

[Private Investigator]

The cadet commander doesn't do anything because she is going to the airforce academy

Apparently she is doing something right. What was pointed out by Eclipse is the best course of action.

How long have you been in CAP? Lots of Cadets has the same issue. The whole Squaron can not revolve around one Cadet. What was on our agenda for June 2012 is going to be the same for June 2013. You only get so many O-Rides and then it is somebody else turn. For Senior Members in a Composite Squadron, you can not expect 100% particpation with the Cadets. Actually some Senior Members do not play well with other Senior Members and you want to deal with a grumpy old 'know-it-all'?

[Duke Dillio]

Please define meaningless...  D&C training all night?  "Boring" aerospace education classes?  These funny character development classes that don't really do anything for you?  Maybe some really boring ES training classes like the familiarization and prep training for mission scanner?  You didn't really give us much to work with here....

Also, one other option you have is to go to a different squadron.  You didn't list that as an option.

[SARguyFVCS]

I have been in CAP for a little over three years and I am the First Sergeant at my squadron. Meaningless as in not only 1 but two character devlopment classes a month. A "normal" meeting scheduale is Opening, then a class (i.e. Character development or AE) or CPFT, then D&C ranging from 15 - 30 mins then closing. the only thing that changes is the class part its either CPFT, Character Development, AE, etc. And I made a mistake she didnt get into the Academy so she is going to the prep school. As of now we have about 35 cadets in eservices but the last couple of meetings we've had only 10-15 show up.

[Eclipse]

At this time of year that is normal, unfortunate, but normal.

Are you being asked for, or are you suggesting other curriculum for the meetings?  And what would you expect to do instead of what is going on now?

Also, as a point of advice, you are not anonymous here and there are more then a few members from your wing who frequent this board.

[RogueLeader]

As the Squadron First Sergeant, draw up a detailed schedule of what you want covered, and request that it be approved.  You are in a position of some authority, and you should use it.  If you don't like what is being taught, suggest topics or activities.  Be the change you want to see.

[SARguyFVCS]

Alright thank you everybody for your advice. I think I have enough to go on for which course of action to take.

[Storm Chaser]

Is your squadron having cadet staff meetings? If not, I would suggest to your unit leadership that you do. A monthly cadet staff meeting would allow the staff to come up with other ideas to incorporate into your meetings and activities. CAPR 52-16 states that "[t]he cadet staff, with senior member guidance, plans the program."

Because of the nature of the Cadet Programs, there are certain requirements (Character Development, D&C, CPFT, Safety, AE, etc.) that your unit has to meet. These are also listed in CAPR 52-16. Make sure you incorporate these in your monthly schedule. Beyond that, there are many ways you can organize your program.

My unit, for example, has a standard schedule where required areas are covered throughout the month. In addition to these, there are blocks reserved for special training. We focus on different areas each semester or quarter as appropriate. This last semester we did the Model Aircraft Remote Control (MARC) program and cadets had an opportunity to build and fly different types of gliders and R/C aircraft, and train using computer flight simulators. This upcoming semester, we're going to be focusing on Emergency Services training, specifically ground team, UDF and flight line marshalling. We also have one of our four weekly meetings on a Saturday, to allow for other daylight, non-classroom type activities. On months with a fifth Monday, we have "fun night".

Once a quarter, or at least once per semester, your squadron should plan a special activity (a trip to a flight museum, or other STEM type activity, for example). The idea is to keep things interesting and diverse.

There's no reason why your unit can't be doing these, but you shouldn't blame it on your senior members or cadet commander. Get the staff together and see what you can come up with as a team. If you have cadets actively making these activities happen, not many senior members would be opposed to them. And as your membership and participation increase, you'll have even more people to help plan cool activities and training.

Good luck!

[SARguyFVCS]

HUA sir I was just looking at that regulation. We have had staff meetings in the past but were discontinued with tthe new commander. I dont know why they were. I will get them going again though. Thank you.

[Critical AOA]

I will assume that your squadron is a composite.  If so you must realize that not all senior members are interested in the cadet program.  Their interests most likely are with ES or AE.  They are under no obligation to work with or cater to the cadets.

If my assumption is wrong and it is in actuality a cadet squadron, I would make another wild assumption that contrary to your assertion the seniors are actually interested in the cadets.  Otherwise why would they be there? If it is a cadet squadron and the activities are not to your liking then have a talk with your leadership.  Together you might discover that CAP or at least this particular unit is not the place for you. 

[BillB]

You have been in CAP for three years and still don't have a Mitchell?

[Garibaldi]

You have been in CAP for three years and still don't have a Mitchell?

I was a cadet for 5 years and no Mitchell. What's your point?

[SarDragon]

You have been in CAP for three years and still don't have a Mitchell?

I was a cadet for 5 years and no Mitchell. What's your point?

Things are significantly different from when you and I were cadets. Today, that situation shows off significant unit leadership issues. Progression is expected at a far quicker pace than back in the day.

[Garibaldi]

You have been in CAP for three years and still don't have a Mitchell?

I was a cadet for 5 years and no Mitchell. What's your point?

Things are significantly different from when you and I were cadets. Today, that situation shows off significant unit leadership issues. Progression is expected at a far quicker pace than back in the day.

Yeah, I see that point. To me, it shows more than a lack of leadership. Some kids look at the stuff cadet officers are required to do and say "not me." My old unit knocked out a Spaatz cadet in record time and no one but the upper brass were pleased. Her mom was DCC and was testing officer at one time so we had our doubts that her progression was on the level. My point, and I do have one, is that I get the feeling sometimes that the cadet program is trying to pump out numbers and not quality. Back in our day, getting your Mitchell was a big deal. Nowadays, it's routine almost. I've seen cadet officers who really should have stayed NCOs for a while longer and some NCOs who should have gotten their Mitchell long before. Look at it this way. Join at 12, every two months a promotion, and you're a cadet officer at 13 and change. Are they ready for that kind of responsibility? I'm not saying it's a fundamental flaw, just that the progression versus age is skewed in my eyes.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Took me 3 years to get my Mitchell. Double the minimums, but certainly not bad in any way. Another year for Earhart instead of half a year. To each his own. I don't believe the minimums should be expected or automatic. I've recently come to believe that we may actually need to average 3 months per grade in the NCO phase, because most cadets simply don't progress fast enough in understanding the new material in 2.

[Storm Chaser]

It took me a little over a year and a half to get my Mitchell. The other ranks took about a year each all the way to Earhart. Things were definitely different back then. Now a day, cadets can meet their requirements and promote much quicker, in my opinion. But that's not always a good thing.

I see many cadets that lack maturity and experience, but yet have rank and positions that they're not ready for. I know it's up to the unit leadership to prevent that from happening. But often the view is that cadets must promote as fast as they can and that cadet activities must be geared towards that. I think activities and training should be geared to developing leadership and other skills and that promotions, while part of their leadership development, should be secondary.

[ol'fido]

There should definitely be some movement in a cadet's progression but it may or may not be at a two month per achievement pace. It should be geared to the cadet's maturity, level of understanding the requirements of the rank they are at, and a grasp of the responsibilities of the rank they aspire to. The two month requirement was not initiated to mandate a pace for advancement. It was initiated to provide an absolute MINIMUM time between achievements. When I first joined advancement happened as fast as you could test and process the paper work. Then Ma Blue said, "Whoa, we're giving E-3 to cadets who enlist with a Mitchell Award. We're getting cadets who have Mitchell's but have only been in the program a few months and they are barely more competent than recruits who come in with no CAP or JROTC experience." So, the CAP implemented the minimum time rule to ensure that cadets had at least what is now, 14-16 months?, of CAP experience before earning that extra rank from the AF.

Personally, I think three or four months minimum would be better. Three months between achievements would mean about 4 years to Spaatz. Considering that most cadets will join probably in 7th or 8th grade if they stick it out(I put that out there as an average not factual statistic), they would be a junior or senior in high school at least when they get their Spaatz. That is probably a good age for that kind of responsibility. There will always be exceptions to the rule who are more mature at 14 or 15 than some people ever get. It has been my observation as someone who has done this a while is that cadets today are more mature in what they know and less mature in how they use that knowledge.

[MacGruff]

Part of maturity is knowing when to push yourself. I got involved in CAP by bringing in a cadet. He took about five months to earn his first promotion not because he was lazy or uninterested, but because he was figuring things out. After the first one, we are having him go to encampment this summer and he has started talking about getting much more serious about promotions as he is now really into it and wants to move up.

Some kids need that extra time to get their feet under them and we should let them do it.

On the negative side, there is at least one cadet I've seen in the Squadron who is there because his parent pushes him to go. He is a C/AMN but is doing NOTHING to earn the next promotion and he has been in the Squadron for over a year.  That's just sad, in my opinion.

[PilotJoe78]

After reading your Original post, it makes it look as if you may not be informed of the Short Term and Long Term goals of the Squadron.

I would ask your Cadet Commander what are the squadrons goals, and then discuss your personal goals with him. During this meeting, you should have enough information to begin a training syllabus that benefits both the squadron, and you as a Cadet.

Once you guys have those answers, you'll understand exactly what is training that is beneficial for the Squadron, and what is non-beneficial.

I think as you are more apart of what is referred to as "the big picture", than you will see how you being involved can help as your input will be what shapes the future of that squadron!