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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Coming out to your squadron.
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Author Topic: Coming out to your squadron.  (Read 6749 times)
MSG Mac
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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2013, 02:31:24 AM »

Will revealing your sexual orientation have a an effect, either positive or negative on your life? After weighing the options, act in your best interests.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
CAP4117
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Posts: 205

« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2013, 02:35:25 AM »

and know that CAP is a safe place for him/her.

Is it?  CAP is not required by law to avoid discrimination based on orientation.  We've had this discussion before. 

This is a can of worms you would prefer to avoid opening because it leads to division in the organization.

I think you are the one that just opened it. Nobody implied the cadet was anything BUT safe until you said that. And it's unfortunate that you did say that, because even if there is a lack of an official policy (which I'm not sure about), in practice, every cadet I have encountered, gay or straight, has been treated with the same amount of respect.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 02:38:38 AM by CAP4117 » Report to moderator   Logged
bflynn
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Posts: 748

« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2013, 03:26:27 AM »

Nobody implied the cadet was anything BUT safe until you said that. And it's unfortunate that you did say that, because even if there is a lack of an official policy (which I'm not sure about), in practice, every cadet I have encountered, gay or straight, has been treated with the same amount of respect.

If nobody implied it, it's because they didn't have the necessary respect to say so.  Good or bad, it IS an aspect of this that should be considered, to say less than the whole truth is to not show respect.  There are people who disagree strongly.  Sometimes those people are in a position of power and you don't know it.  They don't go away because you shut your eyes and pretend they're not there.  That's true inside and outside CAP. 

If you've not encountered this, you've been exceptionally lucky.  Or you just don't know it.

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CAP4117
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« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2013, 04:42:22 AM »

Ah. So telling a cadet that they aren't welcome is suddenly *more* respectful than just treating said cadet with respect despite your personal feelings and holding the rest of the organization to that standard? I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish by going down this road.

I was just relaying my own personal experience. I guess the CAP members I have encountered (in multiple wings, at a variety of activities, and the majority of those on CAPTalk) are able to uphold our core values, whatever their feelings may be.
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2013, 04:56:11 AM »

I should remind everyone what sexual activities are not to be undertaken at CAP activities, hetero or homosexual.  It would be inappropriate in every possible scenario. 

Thus, sexual orientation should be a moot point.

Ours is to accomplish the missions of CAP.  Cadet Protection is key, but sexual orientation is not any automatic indicator of "perversion."  Predators come in all shapes and sizes and they have to be watched for vigilantly.  Stereotyping Gays does nothing but distract from true vigilance in terms of CTTP.  Since my initial point in this thread is standard operating procedure, there is not such thing as "outing" in CAP.  Unless the point is to harass and ridicule, and that is not allowed.

That is an opinion, convince me otherwise....
« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 05:08:21 AM by Major Carrales » Report to moderator   Logged
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Woodsy
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« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2013, 06:26:01 AM »

No CAP member, cadet or senior, is required by any policy or regulation to personally respect or agree with the life choices of any other member.  Policy and regulations can not force an individual to violate their personal (non-CAP) core values. 

We are, however, by our (CAP) core value of respect, when in uniform or at any CAP event, expected and required to ensure a safe place for them and to allow them to contribute.

If the member in question is not invited to other members birthday parties, nights out, or any other non-CAP event, that's perfectly acceptable and understandable.  It is also a reality for many members after "coming out." That's a risk they take when they make their life choices, and an important factor to consider when making the choice to tell others about it.  But while in uniform at a CAP event, he/she must be treated  the same as any other member, period. 


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bflynn
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« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2013, 11:14:45 AM »

I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish by going down this road.

Recognition of truth.

Also reinforcement that when you put your personal life on display, there are always consequences.  Nobody stands up and annouces that they are hetorsexual, why would it go the other way?
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2013, 01:34:53 PM »

I would like to point out to a few here that I know quite a few gays/lesbians, and not one of them "chose" to be that way.
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Woodsy
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« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2013, 01:47:27 PM »

I would like to point out to a few here that I know quite a few gays/lesbians, and not one of them "chose" to be that way.

That's a whole 'nother can of worms. 

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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2013, 01:50:29 PM »

I would like to point out to a few here that I know quite a few gays/lesbians, and not one of them "chose" to be that way.

That's a whole 'nother can of worms.

Its really not. The reason this is an issue is due to culture wars, and the language is a big part if it
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Woodsy
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« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2013, 02:00:12 PM »

I would like to point out to a few here that I know quite a few gays/lesbians, and not one of them "chose" to be that way.

That's a whole 'nother can of worms.

Its really not. The reason this is an issue is due to culture wars, and the language is a big part if it

Trust me, it is. 

A lot of it is geographical, too.  A gay cadet in a San Fransisco, or New York City, or other liberal city is much more likely to be accepted than a squadron in the deep south.  Liberal areas accept these types of things, whereas most in the deep south consider them disgusting. 
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mwewing
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« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2013, 02:03:11 PM »

Unfortunately for this cadet, and many other members, this matter is not as cut an dry as many of us commenting think it should be. It is true that sexual orientation has no bearing on the execution of our missions, and that all members are expected to show each other respect. However, reality isn't that cut and dry - especially on such sensitive topics. Some here have indicated that the cadet shouldn't come out because it isn't a factor for CAP, but that places the gay/lesbian member in a very awkward situation. Why didn't cadet Susan bring a date to the squadron banquet like everyone else? Why doesn't cadet Johnny talk about girls? The same can apply to senior members as well. Why does senior member Bob wear a wedding ring, although he never talks about his wife. Why does senior member Kathy list a "roommate" or "friend" as her emergency contact, when we thought she lived with a husband and family? Like with any community of people, our relationships and knowledge of one another don't necessary end with the closing of each meeting or activity. Many of our members don't even think about sharing this information because they are part of the "majority" group. This is not so easy for gay and lesbian members, or members of other marginalized demographics. The decision not to be open can turn into a life of lies, which is difficult to continue with people you have relationships with.

That said, we cannot ask other members to ignore their religious or moral viewpoints, and at least some people would distance themselves from a gay/lesbian member. This makes the decision to come out within CAP (or any other organization, group, or community) a very personal one. Given that personal relationships could change, and even with the expectation that our members respect one another, this process could affect the gay/lesbian member's level of enjoyment with the organization.

For this reason, I encourage anyone to consider all the implications of this process carefully. Make sure that your coming out process is positive and constructive to your personal well-being, and that it creates the environment that you would like to live in. This may or may not mean that you end up with different groups of friends. It may or many not mean that continued participation in CAP is positive for you, based on the reactions of other members. Focus your decision to come out on what is best for you, and regardless of consequences, you will be moving in the right direction.
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Maj. Mark Ewing, CAP
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West Michigan Group (GLR-MI-703)
bflynn
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« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2013, 02:10:58 PM »

We are, however, by our (CAP) core value of respect, when in uniform or at any CAP event, expected and required to ensure a safe place for them and to allow them to contribute.

Does that include respect for religous beliefs that view homosexual activity as an active sin and a moral defect?  As I see it, that is a unrecognized component of the larger public conflict.  There are a whole lot of people who do not respect other's religious convictions.

I suspect there are a lot of people in CAP that fall into that category too.
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NIN
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« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2013, 02:17:32 PM »

Every time I see this subject line, I think its about someone visiting another unit. As in "I'm coming out to [visit] your squadron."

is it just me?
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2019 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
mwewing
Member

Posts: 58
Unit: GLR-MI-703

« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2013, 02:42:53 PM »

Does that include respect for religous beliefs that view homosexual activity as an active sin and a moral defect?  As I see it, that is a unrecognized component of the larger public conflict.  There are a whole lot of people who do not respect other's religious convictions.

I suspect there are a lot of people in CAP that fall into that category too.

It should. I think ALL members should be allowed to share their honest selves without trepidation. This includes sexual orientation, religion, and anything else you can think of. If we are indeed respectful of one another, we can disagree on any number of things in a positive manner. I don't have to agree with you, your actions, or your views, in order to engage you in a civilized fashion. This foundation of respect is what allows a diverse group of people to focus on their commonality and accomplish a mutual goal.

I don't think either topic should get much attention within CAP. Beyond sharing those things as they come up in normal conversation, there shouldn't be much said within a CAP context. We should be able to redirect ourselves to our 3 missions and leave our differences behind. If I have a moral objection to homosexuality, I will probably not attend a housewarming party for a member and their life partner. If I disagree with your religious beliefs, I will probably not accept an invitation to your services. It doesn't mean I won't be happy that member purchased a home, or be happy that the other member has a church community that is a positive part of their lives. I can agree to disagree and focus my attention to our missions, where I hopefully value each member's contributions.
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Maj. Mark Ewing, CAP
Commander
West Michigan Group (GLR-MI-703)
The Infamous Meerkat
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« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2013, 02:59:02 PM »

Well... what we have here is two pages of people uncomfortably saying "We don't care, do what you want."

I can't believe that this garnered the attention that it did. Rediculous.
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Captain Kevin Brizzi, CAP
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« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2013, 02:59:59 PM »

It's apparently easy to confuse human nature with CAP's organizational stance on a given subject.

CAP's stand is that as far as ethnicity, gender, orientation, religious beliefs, etc., we're all the same.

Anything else is human nature, or people violating clear regulations.  That won't be solved here, regardless of your opinion.

This is one of the primary reasons CAP needs to be treated like a mission and not a social situation.  Politics, religion, personal life, have
no place in CAP, and bringing them into the equation serves no purpose, but may well impact the mission.

Leave it at home.  All of it.
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Flying Pig
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« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2013, 04:29:53 PM »

Leave it at home.  All of it.

Theres an idea......
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bflynn
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« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2013, 08:31:39 PM »

Leave it at home.  All of it.

Theres an idea......

I'm sorry - you're suggesting people leave their morals at home when they do CAP?  That would be an idea...a bad one.
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johnnyb47
Seasoned Member

Posts: 296
Unit: GLR-MI-117

Van Dyke Cadet Squadron
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2013, 08:40:53 PM »

Leave it at home.  All of it.

Theres an idea......

I'm sorry - you're suggesting people leave their morals at home when they do CAP?  That would be an idea...a bad one.
He specifically said "Politics, religion and personal life".
Tell me, which of those requires that you also leave behind your morals?
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Coming out to your squadron.
 


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