Problem at Home Squadron

[gonzo36]

I have been in CAP for 4 years, I'm 17, a C/SMSgt, the 1st Sergeant at my squadron, and favor the Cadet Programs of the 3 missions of CAP. I don't know why but it seems like we are focusing more on AE than anything else (not trying to hate on it or anything). For example, we used to have about an hour a half average of drill after opening ceremonies and within that time we did a great amount of drill and inspections which kept cadets sharp. Now on average, we have about 20 minutes, 35 if we are luck. The rest of the time is being inside on a Tuesday night.

I understand that AE is a big part of the program, but I'm just tired of staying in a class listening to something I don't really like for 2 hours once a month in one night. I prefer doing hands on things and that will sure benefit in the future like character/leadership development and ect. I tell my Cadet Commander (who has been in almost 4 years)this many times and she doesn't really do anything and ignores me a lot.

I sometimes feel that I lost the true meaning of why I joined and what made the Cadet Programs special to me. I honestly can't say much about what it is other than Character/Leadership development, drilling, color guard, and military influence which got me interested in CAP in the first place. All I can bring up are just memories from when I joined back in 2009 to the summer of 2012. This is how I remember it back then, now it doesn't seem the same. I love mentoring and leading but I rarely get to do it at my squadron despite being 1st Sergeant or not and being the 2nd highest senior cadet there.

I will always make a suggestion to my Cadet Commander and she will either ignore it or just say no, rarely a yes despite it being a good idea. She has also made some decisions that had me question her a lot. I am not saying that I don't respect her, I just don't respect her decisions or actions... Any thoughts?

[Майор Хаткевич]

I have been in CAP for 4 years, I'm 17, a C/SMSgt,

You know that to uphold the cadet oath, you need to do 2 achievements per year, right?

the 1st Sergeant at my squadron, and favor the Cadet Programs of the 3 missions of CAP.

That's fine, but CAP has 3 missions, and everyone should participate in all of them.

I don't know why but it seems like we are focusing more on AE than anything else (not trying to hate on it or anything).

I'm going to move your post around a bit.

I understand that AE is a big part of the program, but I'm just tired of staying in a class listening to something I don't really like for 2 hours once a month in one night.

CAPR 52-16 requires at least 1.5 hours per month, so I'm not seeing the excessive focus on AE.

For example, we used to have about an hour a half average of drill after opening ceremonies and within that time we did a great amount of drill and inspections which kept cadets sharp.

Most meetings are 2.5 hours, some being 2, some being 3. THAT much drill, even for me (and I think we need more drill at my unit) is EXCESSIVE, and probably means that your program was severely lacking before.

Now on average, we have about 20 minutes, 35 if we are luck. The rest of the time is being inside on a Tuesday night.

Quite lower than I would like, but honestly, 30-45 minutes per week is just about right.
What CAP requires is:

Leadership: 1.5 hours Includes classroom instruction, drill and ceremonies, team leadership problems and similar activities.

Aerospace: 1.5 hours Includes classroom instruction, "AEX" activities, tours, rocketry, Satellite Tool Kit and similar activities.

Fitness: 1 hour Includes fitness games, drills, orienteering, classroom instruction, fitness testing and similar activities.

Character: 1 hour Includes character forums, DDR programs, mentoring, guest speakers and similar activities.

I prefer doing hands on things and that will sure benefit in the future

Hands on activities are quite encouraged by CAP.

like character/leadership development and ect.

CD isn't really a hands on event. Leadership development is what CAP is, so what do you mean specifically (Outside of drill?)

I tell my Cadet Commander (who has been in almost 4 years)this many times and she doesn't really do anything and ignores me a lot.

She doesn't have to "really do anything" about it. She is also not the person who dictates the cadet program, nationally or at the unit (or shouldn't be).

I sometimes feel that I lost the true meaning of why I joined and what made the Cadet Programs special to me. I honestly can't say much about what it is other than Character/Leadership development, drilling, color guard, and military influence which got me interested in CAP in the first place.

Join the club, but that's not all CAP is about.

All I can bring up are just memories from when I joined back in 2009 to the summer of 2012.

What changed last summer?

This is how I remember it back then, now it doesn't seem the same. I love mentoring and leading but I rarely get to do it at my squadron despite being 1st Sergeant or not and being the 2nd highest senior cadet there.

How big is the unit? Do you know what the first sergeant does?

I will always make a suggestion to my Cadet Commander and she will either ignore it or just say no, rarely a yes despite it being a good idea.

Good idea in your mind.

She has also made some decisions that had me question her a lot.I am not saying that I don't respect her, I just don't respect her decisions or actions... Any thoughts?

You have to respect any appropriate decisions and actions. You don't have to agree, but you do have to respect and execute.

[Eclipse]

Cadet Gonzolez,

Perhaps if your personal progression was meeting CAP's standards, you would understand the decisions that have been made and why things are
being done as they are. That's where you should be looking to fix things first.

From what you are saying here, it sounds as though, historically, the emphasis in your squadron was not correct, quite possibly
contributing to your own lack of progression, and the staff is finally working to set things in place they way they are supposed to be.

[mwewing]

I don't know why but it seems like we are focusing more on AE than anything else (not trying to hate on it or anything). I understand that AE is a big part of the program, but I'm just tired of staying in a class listening to something I don't really like for 2 hours once a month in one night. I prefer doing hands on things and that will sure benefit in the future

I consolidated your statements on AE for ease of reading... Since you are aware that CAP has 3 missions, I am sure you can understand the value of exposing cadets to a diverse experience. As 1 of our 3 missions, AE would certainly be a large part of this. Like usafaux2004 stated, I don't see 2 hours per month as excessive focus. There are also quite a number of hands on activities related to AE that can be incorporated at your unit, including AEX, and Model Rocketry.

For example, we used to have about an hour a half average of drill after opening ceremonies and within that time we did a great amount of drill and inspections which kept cadets sharp. Now on average, we have about 20 minutes, 35 if we are luck. The rest of the time is being inside on a Tuesday night.

This is excessive in my opinion. Drill is an important part of our cadet program, and it does keep cadets sharp. However, 1.5 hours would consume the lions share of most unit's total meeting time. This would leave very limited time for AE, Safety, Character Development, DDR, and everything else we have to offer. If your unit has an active color guard/drill team, it might be beneficial to allocate a significant portion of 1 meeting a month to drill, but only if your unit is large enough to allow for small group activities. However, this should not be at the expense of said teams getting a well rounded experience in AE, ES, Character Development, etc.

I tell my Cadet Commander (who has been in almost 4 years)this many times and she doesn't really do anything and ignores me a lot. I will always make a suggestion to my Cadet Commander and she will either ignore it or just say no, rarely a yes despite it being a good idea. She has also made some decisions that had me question her a lot. I am not saying that I don't respect her, I just don't respect her decisions or actions... Any thoughts?

Again, consolidated for ease of reading... It sounds like your cadet commander (probably with direction from senior member leadership), is bringing a little diversity into a program that was falling short on a number of fronts. As a senior NCO, and 2nd highest ranking cadet, you should be an active part of leading these changes. Make constructive suggestions that contribute to the overall vision of your unit, and I am sure your cadet commander will see you as the leader you claim to be, and embrace some of your ideas. For example, if your AE program lacks hands on activities, I would strongly recommend pursuing the model rocketry program.

Lastly, it surprises me that after 4 years you are only a C/SMSgt. A big part of the cadet program is advancing through the achievements, and I would place some more emphasis on your own growth and development. As you progress into phase III and IV of the program, you will learn more about developing a well rounded cadet program that offers quality experiences to cadets of all interests.

[Private Investigator]

I sometimes feel that I lost the true meaning of why I joined ...

Gonzo snap out of it. It is a phase, cycle, season, stage, etc, etc. That is why we have term limits for Commanders. That is why 55% of marriages end in divorce. You get burned out but if you are focus you continue ahead. One day you will have to work and most likely you have to go work everyday until you are 72.

The others have all given you great advice so go have fun your 17.   

[gonzo36]

I understand all the points that were made. Its not only that. The biggest thing that's been bugging me is that the Senior Members are slowly changing regulations. 1st it was only calling the room to attention when the Squadron Commander comes into the room once a night. Now saluting them is limited down to I think 3 times a night just because its easier for the Senior Members. I am not okay with that because I don't mind saluting and it could get the cadets in the habit in not doing to the point they are going to be yelled at for not saluting in Encampment.

I know that its weird that I have been in 4 years and I'm still an C/SMSgt, but thats not entirely the issue. Its possible that just because of my grade, many wouldn't listen unless it was a higher grade like Chief or above, but thats not the point. I do lead, mainly when it comes to drill because the entire senior staff knows that I'm the best at that in my whole Squadron. Preforming drill myself, giving the commands, and being the loudest and clearest without losing my voice. But when it comes to changes, its like I'm not even there and lot of the other cadet staff notice that and keep quiet.

We have about 75 cadets on record in our squadron and there is an average of 30-35 cadets per week. The funny thing is she will always wonder why this is. I tell that its became boring and she wouldn't listen. I would tell her deputy commander or any other staff member and they would normally agree with what I say. It may seem boring to me because I have been long enough, but its just not enough hands on activities or interaction.

One of my former cadets who told me he looked up to me throughout his year there left because it was too boring and left to join my cousin's Sea Cadet Battalion. He told her who he was and knew me and what surprised me the most was what he had to say about me. He said that I was the only one reasonable there and the one who had all my crap together. This made me feel good for awhile because at the time when I heard it didn't quite seem so. I would always argue that something is not right and my CC (Cadet Commander) wouldn't do anything about it.

[Eclipse]

You have 35 active cadets and the most qualified one to be First Shirt is a C/SMSgt that isn't progressing as expected?

There's a lot more to this situation then is on this page.

You may well have legitimate points, but you will not have the credibility to be listened to until you fix your own situation.
Further, it's not going to help you to keep adding "facts" to make your case "better".

As to saluting - what your Senior Members do isn't really your concern, though one could ask how many times you believe
is appropriate to be saluting in a given evening, especially if the cadets aren't reporting and you're indoors.

[mwewing]

The biggest thing that's been bugging me is that the Senior Members are slowly changing regulations. 1st it was only calling the room to attention when the Squadron Commander comes into the room once a night. Now saluting them is limited down to I think 3 times a night just because its easier for the Senior Members. I am not okay with that because I don't mind saluting and it could get the cadets in the habit in not doing to the point they are going to be yelled at for not saluting in Encampment.

The senior members are not changing regulations, they are updating policies/procedures for your unit. As was pointed out before, this is probably a very good thing based on several things you have shared about your unit. Regardless, these are the decisions your CoC made and (with due respect) as a senior NCO, you need to get in line.

You have not shared any examples of poor leadership, bad decision making, or violations of CAP regulations. Instead, we have heard only about the many changes that you disagree with. First the AE programming, now your complaining about saluting and calling a room to attention. All of this topped with an unhealthy dose of "How great am I."

I know that its weird that I have been in 4 years and I'm still an C/SMSgt, but thats not entirely the issue.

I think this is more the issue than you think. After 4 years, Most cadets would have completed their Mitchell at least. In your original post you seemed to indicate that the cadet commander has been a member less time than you. In this post, you mention the deputy commander. The fact that your fellow cadets are passing you in achievements, and being given leadership positions over you, indicates that your priorities might need reevaluating. You seem to be more focused on a few aspects of the cadet program than giving yourself a well-rounded experience. The well-rounded experience BTW is what will help you later in life. This inability to focus your attention on the needs of the whole unit over your personal desires, gives some insight to why you haven't progressed further in the program.

I am sorry to be so blunt, but you don't seem to be hearing any of the advice you are getting. Instead you keep sharing petty disagreements and painting yourself as cadet awesome. You need to focus your attention on progressing through the program first and foremost. Beyond that, you need to understand the vision and priorities of your unit. You can then partner with your cadet commander and offer constructive suggestions that meet the expectations as set by your CoC.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Took me 8 months to SSgt, 27 to Chief, 35 to 2dLt, and 47 to Capt. I took my time, enjoyed the NCO stage, and really enjoyed the cadet officer stage. Then I timed out due to graduating high school, working, and going to college. I had plans to be a Spaatz cadet. Like most, I didn't make the cut. For me it was PT and time. The leadership bit wasn't a problem, and on my own I read all the way through Achievement 15 by 19 years old. But I failed keeping up with the growing PT requirements, and my self imposed, prolonged chief staged destroyed a lot of the time I could have used.

That's what I regret the most about my time as a cadet. Don't do the same thing.

[gonzo36]

I understand now. Lately I just haven't felt the same for some reason and thought things over and over again. Thank you for your feedback. I will continue my progression through the program. I know that I should be more than an NCO, but I don't need to be reminded of my mistakes. I made many mistakes throughout my years that I have learned and benefited off of them. I enjoy the NCO stage a lot and should start at least promoting to to Chief, my final stage as an NCO.

I also sent out an email to start doing classes revolving around Character Development with the influence of Psychology. Unfortunately that CD is done by senior members. But I was offered to do phase leadership 1. I enjoy teaching cadets in Phase 1 and looks like things might be turning up little by little

[PHall]

Perhaps if your personal progression was meeting CAP's standards, you would understand the decisions that have been made and why things are
being done as they are. That's where you should be looking to fix things first.

And what exactly is the "CAP standard" for cadet progression???

The 52-16 only says that you may promote at a minimum of every 8 weeks (56 days), it does not say anything about a maximum time.

Cite please?

[Eclipse]

Perhaps if your personal progression was meeting CAP's standards, you would understand the decisions that have been made and why things are
being done as they are. That's where you should be looking to fix things first.

And what exactly is the "CAP standard" for cadet progression???

The 52-16 only says that you may promote at a minimum of every 8 weeks (56 days), it does not say anything about a maximum time.

Cite please?

Before the recent change, 6 months with no progression was grounds for termination.

That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

[coloncapfl]

As a CDC at my squadron I am a strong promoter of cadet advancement. A cadet with 4 years and just being SMSgt it normally takes just 15 months and we are talking 48 months here. Not to mention that the first 2 milestones are easier to achieve that the latter 2. If I have a cadet at that grade with 3 years in the program, I would be asking what is the situation. I don't know the situations behind it, but I agree with most of the posts. I think that being an NCO and being placed in the highest NCO leadership position means that the higher staff has placed trust on you. I was a cadet once back in the 80's and the program has changed significant since then. Still is a great program, otherwise none of us would still be here dealing with some of the headaches. Like the other posters said, you should focus on your growth ( have plenty of time to reach Spaatz) and be an example to others. As you become an officer and see more of the way that other things work, it would start to make more sense some of those decisions. As of AE, it is not only part of the basic Cadet Program curriculum but also one of CAP mission. A good leader should first learn to be a good follower.

[PHall]

Perhaps if your personal progression was meeting CAP's standards, you would understand the decisions that have been made and why things are
being done as they are. That's where you should be looking to fix things first.

And what exactly is the "CAP standard" for cadet progression???

The 52-16 only says that you may promote at a minimum of every 8 weeks (56 days), it does not say anything about a maximum time.

Cite please?

Before the recent change, 6 months with no progression was grounds for termination.

That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Ah yes, "before the recent change". So that's no longer the "standard".
So why are you chastising someone for not not meeting a standard that does not exist anymore?

[Eclipse]

Ah yes, "before the recent change". So that's no longer the "standard".
So why are you chastising someone for not not meeting a standard that does not exist anymore?

"Failure to progress" is still very much grounds for termination of cadets.  That 6 months is no longer overtly
mentioned as a suggestion (which it always was) as grounds for termination, does not change the fact that
a 4-year old C/SMSgt is progressing below the curve.

2 months per click is clearly the expectation in the NCO phases, and is reasonable for most cadets.

Most CAP leaders would agree that 6 months with no progression is an indicator of a problem.

[coloncapfl]

I honestly believe that a cadet that on average is promoting at almost 7 months per achievement is not just the cadet's fault but also the senior staff for not noticing earlier, also we don't know if this cadet has been either held back because of the senior staff not processing his promotions on time or maybe a previous demotion or just the cadet is not progressing properly. Either way I also held the senior staff responsible for not addressing this problem. In my squadron I even process my promotions through my smartphone. There are times that a cadet just need CPFT or a drill test to complete his promotion, in that case I have a senior and a cadet staff test the cadet and by the time of closing formation we are promoting the cadet. I don't believe in just giving out promotions but if the cadet earned it then it should not only be our  duty to expedite this promotion but also to promote growth, to make it important. We don't know the totality of circumstances in this cadet situation, therefore I am not totally blaming him. Having said that, with that amount of time the least expected is Amelia or close to it. In 3 1/5 years I almost reached Amelia, and that is when achievements had to be mailed in. Just saying. To the cadet, focus on your growth, there nothing you cant do about your past and if you need help, seek out to your fellow cadets or seniors leaders.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Perhaps if your personal progression was meeting CAP's standards, you would understand the decisions that have been made and why things are
being done as they are. That's where you should be looking to fix things first.

And what exactly is the "CAP standard" for cadet progression???

The 52-16 only says that you may promote at a minimum of every 8 weeks (56 days), it does not say anything about a maximum time.

Cite please?

Before the recent change, 6 months with no progression was grounds for termination.

That sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Ah yes, "before the recent change". So that's no longer the "standard".
So why are you chastising someone for not not meeting a standard that does not exist anymore?

The recent change was 3 months or so ago. He was a cadet when that was on the books. While I've never seen a cadet terminated for that reason, it certainly sets the expectation.

[Critical AOA]

I would think that most cadets joined the Civil AIR Patrol due to its emphasis on Aerospace Education and all things aviation related.  I know that's what I loved about it when I was a cadet and it is what most cadets that I know of enjoy. You actually joined to drill?  That is funny.  I would say you are in the minority.  If aerospace does not interest you but you love marching, you might want to find a different organization.  Maybe learn to play an instrument and join a marching band.  Drill is one of the least significant things that one can do in CAP.  Drill is not one of the three missions but rather is just a sliver of the cadet program.   To me it sounds like your current leadership is getting a program that was far off track back on track.  Kudos to them.

[coloncapfl]

I disagree that Drill is one of the least significant things on CAP (Cadet Programs) then WHY we have NCC for Drill/ Honor Guard/ Color Guard. I understand the importance of Aerospace but is a combination of things. If Drill is not important then why is it a required part of the test for cadet promotion?

I joined CAP as a cadet for both. and that is why Leadership and Aerospace both have 1.5 hrs of contact time per month, furthermore when you go to UCC you learn that you can add as special activities 50 min per month to Color Guard/ Drill team. Saying that Drill is least important I think is wrong, is part of leadership, perhaps he could check if there is a Group Honor Guard/ Drill Team he can join. Just people have different motivations on why they join CAP, we shouldn't discourage them of being part, just find them alternatives. We seniors should encourage not discourage.

[jimmydeanno]

Cadet Gonzo(?)

In your initial post you note that your favorite mission of CAP is the Cadet Program.  I think that you have an idea in your head that the missions break down something like this:

1) Cadet Program: development of leadership in youth and the military things like drill.
2) Aerospace Education: Airplanes, space, and a bunch of science stuff you don't like.
3) Emergency Services: Saving people, looking for planes, etc.

In reality, the cadet program is you, and you participate in the other two missions.  The cadet program is designed to teach leadership in an aerospace oriented environment.  52-16 notes this:

b. Aerospace Theme. CAP members often hold in common a love of flying. Aviation is the thread that runs through all three CAP missions, and CAP's affiliation with the Air Force underscores its identity as an air-minded organization. Whenever possible, every cadet activity should further cadets' enthusiasm for aerospace, as "aerospace" is broadly understood. With a little imagination, even fitness and character activities can be shown to have an aerospace connection.

and that the cadet program's mission is to "transform youth into dynamic Americans and aerospace leaders."

So, the cadet program is supposed to be aerospace themed in every way possible. 

Now, this doesn't mean that cadets should be sitting in a classroom listening to lectures for 8 hours a month.  Instructors should take every opportunity possible to have engaging, hands-on activities to make sure that it doesn't get "boring" and will also give cadets leadership opportunities appropriate to their grade.

I'm not going to berate you for only being a C/SMSgt after four years, but you have to remember that you are essentially a little less than half-way through the program and your "lane" as C/CCC is tactical, not strategic.  That's why you aren't the cadet commander and don't get to make all the decisions.  If you want to be the one to call the shots, get to a place where you can be - that means promote, and don't stop at C/CMSgt either.  Where you are in the program, despite having four years of experience, is not a place where your job function or title would be the one to set the strategic mission or goal for your unit, no matter how much you complain.

If you want to call the shots and fix things you see are wrong, get yourself in a position where you can.