DA42-MPP

[Flying Pig]

http://www.clarityaerialsensing.com/

I was invited up to Sacramento yesterday to test fly the DA42 MPP.  Excellent platform. This is not a regular DA42.  The MPP is actually a production surveillance platorm direct from the factory.  The sensor package is an MX15 or MX10 with an Aero Computers mapping and downlink, Sat Phone etc.  It has a flight time of about 11 hours and burns Jet A at 3.5gph per engine.  FADEC controlled Mercedez diesel engines, G1000 etc etc.  Obviously out of the price range of CAP at close to $1.5-$2 million depending on what equipment you want on board.   I had the chance to put it through its paces and was very impressed.

[a2capt]

But it can't hover

.. though I suppose there's gimbaled camera equipment that makes up for that, like the typical UAV has.

But it's -a lot- cheaper per hour to run, I imagine. So.. tradeoffs.. Hmmm..

[Flying Pig]

Definitely wont replace the helicopter thats for sure. There is no reason anyone should be doing extended surveillance missions in a helicopter. I know they do, but its a gross waste of a piece of equipment.  But te nice thing about this (one of many) is that when you arent following Pablo Escobar, its a modern twin engine airplane. The work station in the back and the sensor can be removed in minutes and off you go with your VIP.  Oh..... and it has A/C.

[FlyTiger77]

From the website: The DA-42 MPP with its 3.2 gallon per hour Austro diesel engines and twelve hour on station time ...

Methinks that 12 hours in any aircraft that size would become miserable! I am glad my Hueys and Cobras were limited to about 2 hours--it gave me and my bladder a break!

[Flying Pig]

They come with option crew relief tubes . I do about 3.5ish before I need to get out. But having the option of staying on if needed would be great.  Of course, no matter how much gas you have, they are ALWAYS going to need you right when its time to refuel!!! 

[ProdigalJim]

It's just such a pretty airplane. Every time I see it, I just really admire the lines. Slick and you can see just about everywhere from the cockpit.

Wonder if that's the sort of sensor package being reviewed in the RFI NHQ put out recently...

[Flying Pig]

Its an MX15. Its an $850k camera.  Generally its used with an Aero Computers Mapping system, which will run you close to $160k. 

[Critical AOA]

It is a sweet looking little machine though I don't foresee CAP getting any.  I wouldn't really mind if we did though since I have my ME rating and am probably in a small minority of CAP members having it.   So if my squadron had one or there was one close by, I could possibly get some cheap multi time.   

But can you imagine the huge rush of members clamoring to use it to get their ME rating? I could imagine a lot of infighting over it. 

[Flying Pig]

Quite honestly I think a platform like this would be wasted in CAP as it currently operates.  I post these things to keep people up to speed on what is out there in the ISR community.  I don't believe CAP would ever end up with anything like this.  But it shows what can be brought to the table from the private sector.  These companies have the ability to support local, state and Fed agencies with these aircraft, and guess what?  They are, and there is funding for it.  They show up with a plane, trained and experienced crews who come from the military and LE ISR and SAR world and speak their language.

I think it is very important for CAP members to know what is out there.  If you know, and are aware then you can present your case in context of what you have.  I know for a fact that many CAP members have no idea these types of things exist.  Those who do know, an even smaller percentage have used it operationally. 

I have been involved in numerous CAP CD operations.  People like flying with CAP, thats not the issue.  But what CAP crews need to be informed about is the technology that many of these LEOs are familiar with.  Getting in to a 1979 C182 is about as primitive as it gets, and these people know it.  Many times I have heard and seen pilots going on and on about the G1000.  Taking the LEOs out to the plane and spending 20 minutes talking about this "advanced" aircraft and showing off their SLR camera.  Not knowing the LEO they are talking with has numerous hours in an RC-26 at 10,000ft  where he had his own work station, Sat Phone, Comms, bathroom, air conditioning and an MX-15.  The cop is nodding his head say "Yeah OK, its hot can we just go."

Stay educated about where your equipment ranks in the food chain.  I still believe low and slow and using the MK-1 Calibrated Eyeball is the best way to look for the green leafy stuff.  Once the target is located, you send up something like the MPP to command the tactical portion of the operation.   In my experience, something like the MPP and its capabilities quickly move outside the envelope of what CAP is able to participate in.  In the area of SAR, yes, i think this could be used for night ops. Put something like this up in an area orbiting at 15K searching for anything and everything.  But if you have never done night SAR ops in mountainous terrain...... dont think your 3 take offs and landings every 90 days will prep you for it.   I WILL NOT do night SAR ops without NVGs.  Some of you old schoolers can chuckle... talk about "back in the day" all you want.  I have plenty of night unaided.   But there are no "acceptable losses" in SAR.

So be aware of what CAP brings to the operation vs what else may be available so you arent blindsided one day when you are asked or someone decides to play devils advocate and tailor your approach from an educated standpoint on the industry.

[lordmonar]

We are currently operating an MX-15 on two 182's with a 206 in the pipe line now.

For CD and DR missions the MX-15 is outstanding.   

I agree that 11 hours endurance would tax a lot people.....and even with releif tubes.....crew effeciancy will drop off a lot around the 4 hour mark.

[Flying Pig]

Green Flag is not operated for traditional CAP missions.  Without Green Flag and its associated mission, CAP would not have 2 MX15s.  Having done years of CD with both the eye and sensors, low and slow with the eye is the best way to go.  The optics only come in if thermal is needed.  Give me a Piper Super Cub and a set of eyeballs in the back seat and Ill find grows all day for an 1/8th of the cost.  CAP always like to whip out how cheap they are to use.  If the Green Flag mission were to disappear would those assets stay with CAP and be redistributed? 

Ive used FLIR, MX10, MX15, and Gyrocam operationally.  The MX15 is complete overkill on a 182 or a 206.  Why the contract didnt call for an MX10 or a FLIR Ultra 9HD is beyond me.  I guess Somebody wanted to spend ALL the money they were allotted I guess or thinks its fun to operate at Max Gross.  FLIR will even upgrade the 8000 to match the Ultra 9HD.   Its a beautiful system that weighs about 45lbs.  You can watch a guy pick a buggar at 8000ft in IR. 

Fortunately, NOBODY suggests you stay airborne for 11 hours straight.  Just that the option is there if the mission requires it.  There are missions in the LE and HLS community that require an above average level of fitness in order to be able to stay on target for hours at a time.  Breaking off because you are tired or have to pee isnt an option.

If I were king of CAP for a day, CAP would be flying a fleet of Piper Super Cubs with oversized bush tires!!!     That would bring a capability few other agencies could provide with the exception of having a helicopter on scene. 

[lordmonar]

When I said the MX-15 was great for CD and DR.....I was not thinking of the search and spot capablity....but more of the "here is the photo of what you wanted" transmitted in real time.

I agree that for general CAP work....the MX-10 would probalby be better....lighter, easer to use, cheaper.    The USAF got the MX-15 because it more closely replicated the MQ-1/-9 sensor package.

And my guess is that GF does ever get canceled.....CAP would keep the equipment....I could be wrong.

[Bear555]

 

Well, my first post here as a new forum member and new CAP member (in southern Maryland) - so hello to you all, and please excuse me for jumping into an interesting debate!

DA-42 - As part of my last job (RPAS/UAV research), I flew the DA-42 (basic airplane) in England and found it to be very suited to 'mission' type work generally.  The main reason for me was the absolute simplicity in flying the airplane leaves the crew a lot of capacity to do or manage other things - not to mention the integrated avionics and great view from the cockpit!

Without making any judgement on it's suitability for the CAP mission, I was sold on the airplane after an hour.  The option to modify it, or to buy a pre-prepared example (the MPP variant) makes for a useful tool for any number of light ISR roles.

Further, people like Aurora Flight Sciences (and others) have been extending the modifications to include optionally piloted and/or remotely piloted.  This 'UAV in a box' solution still carries a large price tag compared to something like a Cessna 172, but get much more attractive when you get closer to figuring required budget for the Predator end of the market.

We found the speed range (75kts to 175kts) and endurance (a genuine 6 hrs max, with 4 hrs 'on task') to be flexible enough to suit most 'typical customer requirements', and also payload to be suitable for carrying (as you suggest earlier) one of the MX series turrets or almost any other high-tech, high-value sensor.

Again, I make no judgement on suitability for the CAP mission, and kind of agree with most of the previous posts.  A fully integrated airframe/sensor/processing/flight crew package could easily end up being $3 million each.  I guess CAP could do a lot with that kind of money.

Regards to you all.


Bear

[Flying Pig]

Welcome. You should find out discussions ..... umm... interesting