Changing Civil Air Patrol to U.S. Civil Air Patrol

[DNall]

Don't need to get into a big old aside here.. .just mentioing them & ROTC/JROTC that have permission from the mil to wear tapes that match their parent services, yet have no need to hide in the woods. Then there's ACA, NSCC, etc that do the same w/o needing endorsement from the mil, and again don't need to hide from anyone. This isn't the girl scouts here. We're closer organizationally to the military than any of those other situations. What's good for the goose... what is necessary for professional appearance in those other orgs... that's all I meant to say.

In the case of our SDF, they did it specifically for important missions purposes... both sides think of it as a team & authority by association, side-effects retention.

I don't really want to drag off into this any further, we've had this conversation before. I only bring it up cause if you're going to put members to the expense of changing tapes, why the hell would you make this LITTLE meaningless change, and why would you press prior to getting a date for ABUs.

[RiverAux]

Final results of poll:  72% of CAP-TALK members disapprove of "U.S. Civil Air Patrol".  With exactly 100 people responding, I'd say that this is a darn good sample of the CAP-TALK community and should give national leaders some cause for concern. 

[A.Member]

The next questions are:

1.  If proposed, would you support a naemtape change to "USAF Auxiliary"?  Yes or No

- and/or -

2.  Should nametapes be left alone, no change at all is needed?  Yes or No

[arajca]

The next questions are:

1.  If proposed, would you support a naemtape change to "USAF Auxiliary"?  Yes or No

- and/or -

2.  Should nametapes be left alone, no change at all is needed?  Yes or No

For the present, we should leave the nametapes alone. Let everyone's pocketbooks, wallets, and bank accounts recover first.

[SarDragon]

Nothing's "broke", so we don't need any fixes looking for a problem.

[LtCol White]

I don't think it needs to be changed right now either.

The next round of changes should be made at the transition to the ABU. At that point, I'd LIKE to see US AIR FORCE AUX. But I have a feeling we'll have US CIVIL AIR PATROL instead.

[MIKE]

If uniform changes were more like a wear out phase out... I would be more receptive to change.  Once it is on the uniform, leave it alone until no longer serviceable.  You should also try to exhaust existing stock as much as possible before coming out with something new.

As an example:  The ABU will be a totally new uniform... This would be the time to create the insignia for that uniform, instead of changing the BDU... which could be on it's way out.

[DNall]

wear out - phase out means greater uniform non-conformity. People buyiung stuff off field cause the like the old way & want to be an individual. That's bad, BUT you do have to work from logic when setting transition dates.


Already answered about tapes, and I think there is majority agreement on most of this, give or take some minor details...

1) hold switch till transition to ABUs (new on new, old on old). Only exception being I'm flexible with regard to setting precedent before the switch in order to carry it thru.

2) I'd like white on OD tapes for ABUs. AF ABU tapes will be cammo, so color on OD remains highly distinctive & visible while presenting a professional image commensurate with expectations.

3) I'd got with "USAF AUXILIARY." If you put "US AIR FORCE AUXILIARY" it'll stretch under my arm somewhere or be so small it's unreadable. An example of a similiar problem: CG tapes say "US COAST GUARD," while CGAux tapes say "USCG AUXILIARY." Nice & simple.

4) The main issue in doing this is the org is formally & legally known as Civil Air Patrol. No such organization as the Air Force Auxiliary exists, CAP is merely designated as the Auxiliary of the Air Force.

We are currently removing ref to AFAux from our patches, planes, & vehicle decals because having them on there means asking permission in advance from the AF before doing missions for others that test the limits of PCA. If you put such markings on the BDU/BBDU tapes, then people in those uniforms become bound by that required legal clearance as well.

Personally, I desire to have AF oversight & regulatory control over what outside missions govt provided resources are used for, and ensuring that those requests comply with both PCA & the best interests of the AF. However, the current course is directed at fast & loose mission approval w/o necessarily cleaning up the wake of problems that follow.

Having discussed the issue with a couple people, I recommed CAP file legal notice to do business as (dba) US Air Force Auxiliary (and abbreviations thereof) with caviat that it be utilized with the consent of the SAF & concurrance of joint resolution of the senate & house armed services cmtes... so basically legally make AFAux our legal name in addition but to CAP. Obviously this is a different course than the national leadership is currently pursuing.

[SAR-EMT1]

USAF AUXILIARY or US Air Force Aux   when we switch to ABUs
As for US Civil Air Patrol or corporate CAP for that matter- throw it in ithe trash.

[Jolt]

Do people really think we'll switch to wearing ABUs in the future?  It sounds kind of far off to me.  Then again, looking at the rate of uniform changes right now, I could see it happening.

[LtCol White]

Of course we will change. Just as we did with the BDU's from the OD fatigues.

[Eclipse]

Does anyone have a document which features the change authorization or the sundown on the current?

I have yet to find this anywhere, with the only mention being in blogs and forums.

[NEBoom]

Does anyone have a document which features the change authorization or the sundown on the current?

I have yet to find this anywhere, with the only mention being in blogs and forums.

Don't think there's anything official out on it yet.  Am I mistaken, or does this have to go through AF approval first?  Maybe that's what we're waiting for.

[RogueLeader]

As of 1646, cst, there is NO notice of having "US Civil Air Patrol" name tapes, being authorized or required on the website.

[RiverAux]

It still needs to be approved by the AF and then either 39-1 will be changed or a policy letter issued....

[LtCol White]

At the Winter Board, USAF said CAP will go to the ABU but that it is too soon at this point to discuss the issue further as far as setting a date.

Think about it....USAF isn't even in them yet. Putting us in them is FAR from important right now. They said yes, we'll discuss the details later in time.  No need for any further speculation on it.

[RiverAux]

At the Winter Board, USAF said CAP will go to the ABU

I'm not sure I heard that....

[RogueLeader]

If we do go to the ABU, I would like to update the uniform patches though.  I also think that uniform changes should be stopped, then update to the ABU's starting in late 2009 and phase out BDU's in early 2011.  I say we subdue the patches and rank, and make the name tapes as well as the bracnh tapes the same color as the BBDU's.

[MIKE]

The USAF has been saying no patches on the ABU for a while now... Just grade, wings/badges.

[RogueLeader]

See, patches would make us more distinct.