LoJack Receivers

[SKYKING607]

Anyone have info on the use of LoJack Receivers for ELT searches? 

LoJack uses a frequency in the 170 Mhz spectrum.  Can we re-tune to 121.5 ?

(My PD is getting rid of a LoJack Receiver).

[Woodsy]

Isn't LoJack GPS enabled? 

Could be a potential source of info...  if a plane has a LoJack, could we get in touch with the company to find out current or last known position? 

Never thought about this...

I was on a downed aircraft mission Tuesday in which the ELT was not transmitting...  We used cell phone forensics to get 2 "likely" areas, about 5 miles from each other and each several square miles...  It was in very dense, swampy terrain and the wreckage was spotted by a helicopter by sheer luck. 

Seems LoJack could be a good tool if for one, we know the aircraft in question has one, and two, we are able to get info out of the company...

[PHall]

I don't think Lo-Jack is approved for use on aircraft by the FAA. Probably because no one has asked...

[johnnyb47]

I believe part of the agreement that was made when Lojack received the government frequency allocation was that the device be locked hard to the frequency. While I'm sure it isnt impossible by any means it's probably not worth your time given that the receiver was designed to be very narrow in so far as frequency reception.
You'd have better luck with a hand held scanner and body blocking techniques.
Just my opinion of course.

As for Lojack in aircraft, the service is only available in about half of the US. There'd be a bit of infrastructure to stand up to make the initial offering.

[ol'fido]

I would like to use Lo-Jack at encampment for some of the seniors and cadet staff. Maybe they offer a collar with lo-jack and radio shock capacity...... . Just wishing here....... :angel:

[Al Sayre]

Little pricey, but this ought to work: http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=SportDOG-TEK-1-0-Remote-Training-Tracking-System&i=443567&r=view&aID=558F&cvsfa=2586&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=343433353637&s_kwcid=goobase_goobase_filler&cID=GSHOP_443567

[sardak]

Isn't LoJack GPS enabled?
Could be a potential source of info...  if a plane has a LoJack, could we get in touch with the company to find out current or last known position?

No, LoJack is not dependent on GPS and the LoJack system doesn't know where your vehicle is. When the vehicle is reported stolen, a signal is sent by the LoJack system (100 - 500 watt transmitters on high places) to the LoJack transceiver in the vehicle. This tells the transceiver in the vehicle to start sending the "I'm stolen" signal which can be detected by the DF unit in the law enforcement vehicle or aircraft. So the stolen vehicle has to be in range of one of the LoJack transmitters, and then law enforcement has to find it. The LoJack warranty is that if the vehicle isn't located within 24 hours, LoJack refunds the cost of the LoJack system.

As mentioned, LoJack is not nationwide, and coverage is limited in the area where there are transmitters. It's line-of-sight high band VHF. The list of coverage areas is here: https://www.lojack.com/Buy-LoJack-Products/Check-Coverage  LoJack is not available for aircraft or boats. It's the FCC, not FAA, that keeps the system out of aircraft (just like the cell phone ban).

There is a law enforcement version of the RhoTheta RT-600 DF units used in CAP aircraft that includes the LoJack frequency.

Mike

[ol'fido]

Little pricey, but this ought to work: http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=SportDOG-TEK-1-0-Remote-Training-Tracking-System&i=443567&r=view&aID=558F&cvsfa=2586&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=343433353637&s_kwcid=goobase_goobase_filler&cID=GSHOP_443567

Enampment fees are going up!!!

[Brad]

If you have a licensed ham on staff, and enough people have Android phones, just put APRSDroid on their phones and sign on with the APRS ham credentials. Then you can sit in the office and watch all the little blips wander around the base on a map, haha!

And it is still 100-1 compliant because it would be a strictly voluntary system to demonstrate the capabilities of amateur radio to those members who just so happen to be CAP members. Ergo, training, not a business function of CAP.

[arajca]

If you have a licensed ham on staff, and enough people have Android phones, just put APRSDroid on their phones and sign on with the APRS ham credentials. Then you can sit in the office and watch all the little blips wander around the base on a map, haha!

And it is still 100-1 compliant because it would be a strictly voluntary system to demonstrate the capabilities of amateur radio to those members who just so happen to be CAP members. Ergo, training, not a business function of CAP.

I will argue otherwise. You're using amatuer radio systems at a CAP base. Everything there is CAP business, regardless of whether it's voluntary or not. Contrary to your ergo, training at a CAP mission IS a business function of CAP.

[Eclipse]

Or you could just sign into Latitude.   

[Brad]

If you have a licensed ham on staff, and enough people have Android phones, just put APRSDroid on their phones and sign on with the APRS ham credentials. Then you can sit in the office and watch all the little blips wander around the base on a map, haha!

And it is still 100-1 compliant because it would be a strictly voluntary system to demonstrate the capabilities of amateur radio to those members who just so happen to be CAP members. Ergo, training, not a business function of CAP.

I will argue otherwise. You're using amatuer radio systems at a CAP base. Everything there is CAP business, regardless of whether it's voluntary or not. Contrary to your ergo, training at a CAP mission IS a business function of CAP.

Factor out the encampment aspect then, simply make it an activity at a meeting night.

9-14. Limited Support for Amateur Radio Training. In CAP units making use of Amateur Radio as a unit activity, corporate radio equipment that is no longer NTIA compliant, and therefore is no longer authorized for operational missions, may be used on amateur frequencies, with advance permission from National Headquarters requested via wing and region headquarters. Equipment used for this purpose shall have all CAP frequencies and/or frequency determining elements removed. At no time shall Amateur Radio frequencies be used in conduct of Civil Air Patrol business or missions, IAW paragraph 11-2. Operation on amateur radio frequencies requires an FCC-issued amateur radio license, or supervision by an FCC licensed operator.

Also there is an MOA in place between CAP and the ARRL which reads in part:

2. Promote interest in skills applicable to both organizations' operations, such as radio direction-finding, basic electronics, and effective operating discipline.

So, am I saying use this as an integral safety system for encampment or an actual CAP training function? No, because we can't. I know I said training at first, but allow me to rephrase. What I'm saying is simply have it as a "hey come take a look at this" kind of thing that could be of interest to members at a meeting or an encampment. Same as having a guest speaker at a lecture.

Again, it wouldn't be CAP business because it would be done by a licensed ham operator who happens to be a CAP member. Are they "acting in a CAP capacity" or "conducting CAP business or a mission" using amateur frequencies? No.

[arajca]

Where did encampment come from?

If you're doing a demonstration at a meeting or separate activity, that's different from using it at a mission base. The same paragraph is also used to prohibit CAP use of amatuer radio frequencies to liase with amatuer groups at missions, even if the CAP member has the appropriate license.

[Brad]

Where did encampment come from?

If you're doing a demonstration at a meeting or separate activity, that's different from using it at a mission base. The same paragraph is also used to prohibit CAP use of amatuer radio frequencies to liase with amatuer groups at missions, even if the CAP member has the appropriate license.

Never meant to imply using it at a mission base, I meant base in terms of the base hosting an encampment, for example.

What I'd really be interested to see though, is taking a CAP repeater, setting it up to accept APRS touch-tone databursts, then showing the MROs how to send the appropriate information with a VHF keypad on a compliant radio. With APRStt, ANY radio can work APRS, not only the ones that have an APRS system built in.

Then on the other end, a base user could take a radio with a data jack, plug it into a computer, and load up APRSIS32 for example, and then see all the appropriate blips pop up on the map when it hears the databurst coming off the repeater.

Would take some doing with a GPS to key out your lat long position, but it is doable and as long as the repeater is set up to listen for it, it will pass the data. And it's still using CAP frequencies and CAP equipment.

I know, a pipe-dream with all the red tape for approval. Still though, would be cool just to see it done.

[a2capt]

The other thing with LoJack is the receivers are typically not owned by anyone but the corporation. Much like postage meters. Pitney Bowes owns a lot of meters. Even when you pretty much bought it, the module in it isn't yours. They can demand it back and pay you for the unused balance. Done.

LoJack installs the units in cars and then takes them back when the cars go out of service, or the unit is upgraded. So someone getting rid of one.. could be interesting.

[SKYKING607]

LoJack is installed in our law enforcement birds and is in nearly every police car here in So Cal.

Desire to install in my POV.  Came from a decommissioned unit and worked fine the day it was removed.

mc