Civilian jacket in CAP uniform

[Texas Raiders]

Honestly, nothing makes me irks me more in this world than seeing someone so grossly out of reg as mixing civies with our Blues. If you don't have the money, that's unfortunate...deal with it. Deal with out disrespecting my uniform. Countless men that have given their life to this country have worn this uniform so you have no right to disrespect the uniform. The importance of professionalism cannot be understated.

Lighten up, Francis. 

Your zeal is commendable, but it's a little much when it comes to this subject.  That's okay.  There's nothing wrong with being passionate about something, but there are times when people need a "filter" or to practice restraint.  As said before, wear and maintain your uniform properly.  You can serve as an example to others and quite possible inspire them to aim higher (no pun intended).  You can offer help when appropriate, but do so tactfully.  Take that zeal, tune it a little bit, apply it evenly to all that you do in CAP, and leave any attitude at the door.  You should be fine. 

[abdsp51]

He's been spoken to about that post man..

[Blues Brother]

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as hostile, but it's may belief that strictly following the rules is one of the few ways we retain good military order. With all the work the Air Force has put into trying to maintain a professional appearance, there are Cadets and Senior Members destroying that in one fell swoop and it's just really upsetting. I physically die a little on the inside every time I see it.

In that case I hope your not in the squadron that the cadet wore the pink Hello Kitty jacket then.

[a2capt]

In that case I hope your not in the squadron that the cadet wore the pink Hello Kitty jacket then.

Oh that would be one heck of a CAPF 78..  ... 

[Texas Raiders]

He's been spoken to about that post man..

Yes.  Thank you, man.  However, this time he was provided with guidance in a constructive manner, not just a lashing.  If you are a senior member, or have ever been a supervisor in the military, you should know better.  So, take a step back, don't judge people by their screen name, and "chill it with the tude", man.   

[abdsp51]

He was provided with corrective feedback and there was no tongue lashing. Without a clear cut way of knowing either or what his status is/was it was generic.  No need to beat the poster anymore than needed, his zeal and such was addressed and didn't need to be addressed again.  And for the record I am both a SM and a Mil supervisor and quite effective at both. 

[Texas Raiders]

He was provided with corrective feedback and there was no tongue lashing. Without a clear cut way of knowing either or what his status is/was it was generic.  No need to beat the poster anymore than needed, his zeal and such was addressed and didn't need to be addressed again.  And for the record I am both a SM and a Mil supervisor and quite effective at both.

Well for the record, that makes two of us.  You have your style and I have mine.  Enough said.  Carry on.

[PHall]

He was provided with corrective feedback and there was no tongue lashing. Without a clear cut way of knowing either or what his status is/was it was generic.  No need to beat the poster anymore than needed, his zeal and such was addressed and didn't need to be addressed again.  And for the record I am both a SM and a Mil supervisor and quite effective at both.

Well for the record, that makes two of us.  You have your style and I have mine.  Enough said.  Carry on.

Yeah, but he knew enough to keep it private.     What's that line?  "Praise in public, correct in private."

And for the record,  I've been in CAP for 38 years and retired from the Air Force Reserve after 31-1/2 years.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

What's that line?  "Praise in public, correct in private."

What I always try to do...not always successfully.

[David Lewis]

Lighten up buddy.  This is a topic about cadets not having the proper jackets not some SM.  And judging by your name trust me this was my uniform and several other AD/Ret AF types on this board long before it was yours.  Chill it with the tude and save the whole thing for legitimate wanna bees that actively disgrace the uniform.

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as hostile, but it's may belief that strictly following the rules is one of the few ways we retain good military order. With all the work the Air Force has put into trying to maintain a professional appearance, there are Cadets and Senior Members destroying that in one fell swoop and it's just really upsetting. I physically die a little on the inside every time I see it.

Dear De Ruiter,

Seriously, you "physically die" a little when you see Cadets and Seniors "destroying" the professional appearance of the Air Force?  Kid, breath deeply into a paper bag a bit.  It'll be okay.  I've been wearing an Air Force uniform in one form (CAP since 1977) or another (USAF 1983-2005) for a loooong time.  Currently, it is 13 degrees Fahrenheit outside here in Omaha, and it is 6 degrees F in Beatrice, where my unit meets.  I have 15 cadets, none of whom have parents who are ex-USAF.  Yes, I have a USAF cold weather parka, and an M65 woodland camoflage field jacket and liner, and 4 green flight jackets (2 winter, 2 summer) and a brown leather jacket, and nomex gloves, and leather gloves, etc. etc. etc.   Am I concerned with my cadets wearing civilian jackets to CAP?  No, never.   I'm thrilled they have made the effort to come out at 6:45 on a Tuesday night to participate in OUR program.  Am I afraid that the general public is going to get a bad impression of the Air Force?  No.  Show me your kid home playing video games, or wearing his trousers down to his knee caps with his boxer shorts sticking out, and I'll show you MY cadets learning about Aerospace, discipline, drill and ceremonies, and the Air Force way of life.  Should I let MY cadets get hypothermia because they don't own a parka?  Is my cadet NCOIC, who has passed every time she has tested every 56 days LESS professional because she doesn't own an M65 Field Jacket and liner?  FYI--when I rejoined CAP last February after a 10 year hiatus, I spent about $1500 purchasing a new service dress jacket, 3 pairs of blue trousers, 2 new sets of BDU's, a pair of brand new Corcoran jump boots, several sets of grade insignia, 3 sets of custom embroidered ribbons from Taiwan, cadet programs/aerospace education/professional development badges, custom made white on ultramarine blue Chief Enlisted Aircrew badges and Master Intelligence badges, a new blue beret, and a new mess dress uniform with a complete set of 34 miniature medals.   Would I LIKE to see my cadets have the entire contingent of uniforms?  You bet.  Am I gonna "die a little" if they don't?  No, I am just going to be thrilled to see them each week.  Now--CHILL OUT. 

Warmest Regards,

Dave

[Airman De Ruiter]

Unfortunately, CAP is a costly activity. Would you let your cadets go around in a BDU top and Army Greens bottom if that's all they could get? CAP costs money and unfortunately some people either have to get the money or put up with uncomfortability. It gets to about -6 around meet time here and I can't seem to my lightweight jacket, therefore the past three meets, I've been in short sleeve Blues with no outerwear. Uncomfortable, yes. In regulation, yes. How can you teach discipline and the Air Force way by so willfully disregarding directives from National?

[Luis R. Ramos]

Airman,

The prime directive from National is safety. Safety takes precedence. So for a meeting, if you have tops and bottoms BDU, and a set of Blues, then you should be allowed to wear civilian coat, if it 30, 10, or -10 weather.

What is the codeword? SAFETY!

Flyer

[Airman De Ruiter]

If National does, in fact, indicate that safety is overrides all other regulations, then why not have a Cadet, without proper cold-weather gear, should be out of uniform, in civvies, and in reg. Any objections?

[Luis R. Ramos]

Not sure what you saying.

In my view, you can wear civilian coat with blue or BDU uniform if weather is O-my-its freezing and you have not been able to get the coats.

Common sense.

Flyer

[Майор Хаткевич]

Unfortunately, CAP is a costly activity. Would you let your cadets go around in a BDU top and Army Greens bottom if that's all they could get? CAP costs money and unfortunately some people either have to get the money or put up with uncomfortability. It gets to about -6 around meet time here and I can't seem to my lightweight jacket, therefore the past three meets, I've been in short sleeve Blues with no outerwear. Uncomfortable, yes. In regulation, yes. How can you teach discipline and the Air Force way by so willfully disregarding directives from National?

I would have sent you home. Simple and problem solved. At the same time, the rest of the cadets in their lowly civilian coats would get to do what they came to do.

[DennisH]

This is the first time I am commenting on this, I am new to CAP but I have served 35 years in the Army/Army Reserve and soon to retire a 1SG. By the very nature of my job/title I am the walking regulation and enforcer of said regulations. I am also concerned for the safety of the cadets. So coming from my background and seeing what the uniform situation is, I would adjust accordingly. If a Cadet didn't have a winter jacket I would have ZERO issues with him/her wearing their street jacket with few exceptions. Since the BDU pattern is less available then it was when it was worn in the service you have to use common sense. If a Cadet show up with a civilian jacket over his uniform or a pair of thermal underwear on and it is very cold outside you would have to have rocks in your head to tell him/her to take it off and go outside. I would rather take the butt chewing for the cadets then have one get sick or decide that they are done volunteering after all the hard work they put in. Sometimes leadership means making a choice that will get you a kick in the butt.

[ol'fido]

This is the first time I am commenting on this, I am new to CAP but I have served 35 years in the Army/Army Reserve and soon to retire a 1SG. By the very nature of my job/title I am the walking regulation and enforcer of said regulations. I am also concerned for the safety of the cadets. So coming from my background and seeing what the uniform situation is, I would adjust accordingly. If a Cadet didn't have a winter jacket I would have ZERO issues with him/her wearing their street jacket with few exceptions. Since the BDU pattern is less available then it was when it was worn in the service you have to use common sense. If a Cadet show up with a civilian jacket over his uniform or a pair of thermal underwear on and it is very cold outside you would have to have rocks in your head to tell him/her to take it off and go outside. I would rather take the butt chewing for the cadets then have one get sick or decide that they are done volunteering after all the hard work they put in. Sometimes leadership means making a choice that will get you a kick in the butt.

Sometimes leadership means making a choice that will get you a kick in the butt.

HOOAH!

Randy L. Mitchell
Old 11B

[Stonewall]

Sometimes leadership means making a choice that will get you a kick in the butt.

HOOAH!

Randy L. Mitchell
Old 11B

Concur 100%!

HOOAH!

Old Former 11B2P

[Storm Chaser]

I would love to see every one of my cadets and senior members wear the appropriate uniform jacket (and the required insignias) at all times. In fact, it does bother me a bit when cadets wear civilian apparel with their uniforms. That being said, I would NEVER let a cadet be cold outside because he/she can't afford the right jacket. Safety is ALWAYS first!

Airman De Ruiter, you have a lot to learn about life, not just CAP. You're NOT in the Air Force. And as someone who is, I can tell you most uniforms are either issued (at no cost) to Air Force personnel or are purchased with uniform allowances. Heck, as an officer I have to pay out of pocket for many uniform items, but I also get a paycheck for wearing my uniform. That's not the case with CAP volunteers.

[LGM30GMCC]

Adapt and overcome.

It gets to about -6 around meet time here and I can't seem to my lightweight jacket, therefore the past three meets, I've been in short sleeve Blues with no outerwear.

That's not hardcore, that is foolish. Take a look at this chart. You're risking frost bite or hypothermia in short order. I'm not going to look at you as 'hard core cadet doing the right thing' I'm going to look at you as 'misguided kid who has his priorities waaaaaaay out of order.' That certainly won't be conducive to me giving you any position of responsibility over anyone.

Can I get in on some hooahing by throwing out my K13S3C?