how to start a new squadron?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I'm thinking about starting a squadron a little closer to home, for a better reason than it is close to my home. The nearest squadron away is an hour away, that leaves out quite a few potential cadets and senior members.  There are quite a few people that I have ran into here and they have said they wouldcnsider joining if there was a squadron in the area, but an houraay is too far to go once or twice a week. It's also too far for me. So I want to try to get a squadron up and running here, I have read the regulations and they are not much help other than the number of people you have to have to start a squadron . How does one go about starting?

[Garibaldi]

Well, from what I understand, it's a process. You have to make Wing aware of a need for a new unit. Then, you have to see if you can get enough people interested to MAKE a unit, at least 15, of which 3 must be senior members. Then, you have to get meeting space, a charter...CAPR 20-3 outlines what goes on with chartering a new unit.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

How do I make wing aware of the need? Is there a certain individual, or do I bring it up to the wing king.? And since I currently belong to a squadron, do I have to get the squadron commanders approval?

[Garibaldi]

Well, I'd thought about reactivating the old Fayetteville unit a few years ago, but it would have caused bad feelings with my current unit because there were several people who would have defected to the new one, messing with their numbers. I think if you made your unit CC aware and if he was agreeable, THEN have him bring it up to the wing king. I don't remember where you live exactly but your unit is a ways away from anything. It's a dicey, tricky bit of business. I don't think I'd ask the Colonel YET. See if you can get enough interest FIRST; that would show a need for a new unit. Try to see about lining up meeting space and whatnot, so when you present your idea you have most, if not all, your ducks in a row. The less questions you have to fumble around answering, the better.

[SARDOC]

Also...If it's more convenient it might be easier starting out as a flight until you build up your membership.  I think as a flight your primary mission should be recruiting all while going through the Chartering Process.  Send the request through your current commander to see is he/she is willing to support a flight, then all the way to the wing commander with the intent of chartering a new unit.

Good Luck.

[Eclipse]

The Wing CC will be the ultimate authority - I would check with him or one of his high-level staff such as the CV or CS.

If you have groups, the Group CC will likely have an opinion and a say about the matter, especially if the new unit's AOR would fall outside his jurisdiction.

Demographics and proximity to other units will be a factor - few Wing CC's are going to allow a new unit too close to another one.

I think as a flight your primary mission should be recruiting all while going through the Chartering Process.

You'll need to have signed applications or letters of intent to transfer for at least the minimum contingent for the charter type you pick before NHQ will consider the charter request.

You could certainly light up a "working group" (vs. calling them a flight) of members to start a squadron and begin meeting in a new place (with your unit cc's permission), but an actual "flight" is a charter just like a squadron, and you'd have to have the minimums for that as well.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

So you can branch a squadron to another location?

So far as location goes, the nearest squadron to us is an hour away in Texarkana, and there are three towns that could easilymeet here is foreman AR,  even though it's a small town, there are lots of youth, and plenty of potential senior members. I have talked to the superintendent about recruiting here, and he said he would love it, please do, but his only concern is how far away we are.he is sure we would have quite a few bite at it right away, and many more as time goes on.

They have heard of CAP here, but don't really know anything about it yet... Not to mention the huge number of vets in the area.

Also, outside of Texarkana, the nearest squadron is two hours north in Little Rock, other than that, four hours. So we're not congested with units by any means.

[Eclipse]

So you can branch a squadron to another location?

You're not really "branching" them, it's a seed group of members from a unit who meet in hopes to grow big enough
to get their own Charter.  It has to have the overt approval of the unit CC, etc.  Someone would need to be the
appointed head of the group, and they'ed still be reporting into their commander for all their sign-offs, approvals,
etc., until such time as they transfer to a new charter.

I've also seen unit who have separated meetings for various reasons, ES/CP, seniors/cadets,etc.  That's really
all up to the Unit CC as to how he runs his schedule and squadron.

What you can't do, and I've seen this more then once, is just "decide" to start meeting somewhere on your
on recon.  That's not allowed.

What you might do is discuss this with your unit CC, and draw some circles on a map - "Anyone from here would go to us,
anyone from there would go to you." Etc.

It sounds to me like you may have a good chance.  Certainly ARWG isn't top-heavy with units.

The only thing I really know about Texarkana is that there is beer there for the thirsty folks in Atlanta...

[Майор Хаткевич]

What I want to figure out is why the typical requirements for a Squadron commander (at a minimum) are so low. There have been a few vacancies come up in our group, and I'm amazed that I am "qualified" to apply (and I guess get a position if there are no better candidates). Personally, having been exposed to CAP as a cadet and only a short time as a SM, I would probably be terrified to try and run a unit, I really have no idea how a "off the street" SM would do.

[Eclipse]

What I want to figure out is why the typical requirements for a Squadron commander (at a minimum) are so low.

Because the quantities of Squadron Commanders are equally low, and in terms of career progression, its considered a
company-level job, and that's a Captain's job.

The fact that we have eagles in the job, some with a decade of tenure, is an anomaly in CAP's "Up and around" instead of "up and out" paradigm.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm not a captain, and the requirements that have been going out are:

Minimum Requirements:

●        A member in good standing with no disciplinary action in the last calendar year.

●        Completion of level 1, CPPT, EO, and all other applicable online training

Of course the preferred requirements are a little more reasonable:

Suggested Prerequisites:

●        1-2 year CAP membership with at least one year active staff service.

●        Completed Level II or higher.

●        Operational experience as a member in either ground or air operations

●        Management or team leader experience either inside or outside of CAP

●        Active participation both within and outside the squadron in CP, ES, AE, and squadron activities.

●        Completion of UCC (Unit Commanders Course) is a plus, as it will be expected in your first 12 months of command.

I have level 2 done, not the staff service, not the ops experience. Management is up to the interpretation of every individual. Active participation is subjective again. UCC makes sense.

[Eclipse]

I meant that Captain should really be the top-end for Unit CC's, with First Lieutenant being the sweet spot.
The level of training and presumed experience for most 1st Lts and Capts is about right to be a unit CC, and of course in the real world you would
rarely have Field Grade officers (or even generals) reporting to Captains.  Promotions would normally be based on an open billet or manning table and you simply would not get promoted if there wasn't an appropriate job opening.

CAP is top-heavy with Captains because of all the pilots - one of the arguments against conferring the grade based only on the ticket.
Military professionals who are conferred advanced grade have to at least complete "salutin' school", and their education would normally
imply the requisite baseline management ability.

The practical reality is that you're looking as the bare-minimum expectations, with the hope someone with more experience would step up.
You have to draw the line somewhere.

A "Company" is usually 26-50 people, which is where the average unit falls, and which is probably where it should fall.  Units larger then that are anomalies of the shrinkage of the program.  When our wing had literally 2-3 times as many units, they were much smaller by design.

In your case, based on my personal knowledge of your experience, I'd say you'd probably do pretty well as a commander, or certainly a CD as preparation.  Without the time you took away, you'd likely be even better prepared.

[jimmydeanno]

I meant that Captain should really be the top-end for Unit CC's, with First Lieutenant being the sweet spot.
The level of training and presumed experience for most 1st Lts and Capts is about right to be a unit CC, and of course in the real world you would
rarely have Field Grade officers (or even generals) reporting to Captains.

The promotions would be based on an open billet or manning table and you simply would not get promoted if there wasn't an appropriate job opening.

The practical reality is that you're looking as the bare-minimum expectations, with the hope someone with more experience would step up.
You have to draw the line somewhere.

A "Company" is usually 26-50 people, which is where the average unit falls, and which is probably where it should fall.  Units larger then that are anomalies of the shrinkage of the program.  When our wing had literally 2-3 times as many units, they were much smaller by design.

In your case, based on my personal knowledge of your experience, I'd say you'd probably do pretty well as a commander, or certainly a CD as preparation.  Without the time you took away, you'd likely be even better prepared.

But, in the real world, you wouldn't find 1st Lts as Squadron Commanders.  That's really a Lt Col position in Big Blue.  1st Lts are usually OICs of a work center and Captains are flight commanders.  Squadron deputies end up being Majors and Commanders are usually picked from the Lt Col pool or someone who is about to pin on Lt Col.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

My old squadron has a commander who came into CAP, and one yearish later he was the CC.  I don't think they could have gotten a better guy for the job. He is an amazing leader.

[Eclipse]

But, in the real world, you wouldn't find 1st Lts as Squadron Commanders.  That's really a Lt Col position in Big Blue.  1st Lts are usually OICs of a work center and Captains are flight commanders.  Squadron deputies end up being Majors and Commanders are usually picked from the Lt Col pool or someone who is about to pin on Lt Col.

Well, I'd agree, but part of the "problem" is how we define our units and echelons.

We use "company" and "field" grade as the terms, but they don't match up to their Army definitions.
A "squadron" is supposed to have "planes".  Rarely does a CAP unit have more then one plane, most
don't even have one.

Company = 25-50

Battalion = 3-500

Regiment = 3000+

(ish)

In the real world a Wing CC would be a 1-star (this argument has been made recently, even to the point where it was proposed that the NAT/CC be a 3-star, Regions 2-star, and Wings 1 star), at least based on the job title, but based on the scope of those in the command,
an eagle is probably appropriate.

[jimmydeanno]

But, in the real world, you wouldn't find 1st Lts as Squadron Commanders.  That's really a Lt Col position in Big Blue.  1st Lts are usually OICs of a work center and Captains are flight commanders.  Squadron deputies end up being Majors and Commanders are usually picked from the Lt Col pool or someone who is about to pin on Lt Col.

Well, I'd agree, but part of the "problem" is how we define our units and echelons.

We use "company" and "field" grade as the terms, but the don't match up to their Army definitions.
A "squadron" is supposed to have "planes".  Rarely does a CAP unit have more then one plane, most
don't even have one.

Company = 25-50

Battalion = 3-500

Regiment = 3000+

In the real world a Wing CC would be a 1-star at the least based on the job title, but based on the scope of those in the command,
an eagle is generally appropriate.

Even the Air Force doesn't use the term squadron to denote a unit with planes.  "Communications Squadron,"  "Support Squadron," "Intelligence Squadron," etc.  Even the size of the squadron is organic.  A Communications Squadron could have 200, or the "ACOMS" could have 20.  In our case, a squadron has 15+.

I think it would be a waste to have a Lt Col in command of a 15 member squadron, unless it was to make some drastic changes and increase its size over a given period (special project, etc).  In cases where that's about as large a pool, we could make it a flight and have a 1st Lt or Capt in command, who reports to the nearest squadron commander.

I think that having someone with oak leaves on their collar would be far more beneficial than having someone with new silver bars - if we are looking at grade as someone normally would.  Ideally, I'd want someone with 5+ years of CAP experience, coming from one or more of our mission specialty tracks, and has completed at least Level III.

[Eclipse]

I think that having someone with oak leaves on their collar would be far more beneficial than having someone with new silver bars - if we are looking at grade as someone normally would.  Ideally, I'd want someone with 5+ years of CAP experience, coming from one or more of our mission specialty tracks, and has completed at least Level III.

I wouldn't disagree.  Do you know where we can buy more of them?

What I've seen in the last few go-rounds for unit CC's is most of the oaks have done at least one tour and moved on, up,
or out.  That or simply sideways to be a "member" for a while without additional responsibilities.  Speaking only for the
guys in my "class", that seems to be a mantra lately.  It's looking attractive to me as well.

This is also another symptom of the program shrinkage and unit stagnating - a gap between the old farts and the FNGs with
no one in between, so you're either entrenched, or still drying your level 1.

There's also the issue that, at least in my Region, if you want oaks you almost have to be moving up.  There's been a lot of emphasis
in the last few years on your career showing "increased responsibility" especially up into the silver ones.

[a2capt]

In some of your earlier posts when you first moved to AR, at least I sensed some contention with the unit you found/joined. By branching out on your own, you may cause friction with your current unit, too.

The boys are bored in Foreman and there's CAP in Texarkana, and we'll bring it back no matter what it takes!

[Майор Хаткевич]

In your case, based on my personal knowledge of your experience, I'd say you'd probably do pretty well as a commander, or certainly a CD as preparation.  Without the time you took away, you'd likely be even better prepared.

No doubt having an additional 4 years on, almost two as a SM would have helped.

But being "fresh" on the scene also gives me a great perspective on where most members are post-lvl1 and even completing lvl2.

I've been under (I think I got the math right) three commanders in one unit, and four (partially) in another. I've seen good commanders and I've seen some bad commanders. Even the good guys, with years of experience prior to taking command would call it a tough job, and certainly one that requires some guidance from above at times. A new guy, someone like me or a SM in for 1-2 years would probably have the higher echelon commander on speed-dial and nightly calls.

I've gotten glimpses into what a good run unit has going for a commander, and it's a lot of work. I can only imagine what it is like in a unit that is understaffed or lacking in quality staff overall. Can't be easy which is why some commanders fail/burn out well before their term is over. Thinking this over, I can see why some units are so focused on the cadet program and fail/don't meet the standard in the other missions. While CP is certainly not easy, it's the easiest way to run a unit - everyone works for the success of the CP, and darn anything else.

[tsrup]

In your case, based on my personal knowledge of your experience, I'd say you'd probably do pretty well as a commander, or certainly a CD as preparation.  Without the time you took away, you'd likely be even better prepared.

No doubt having an additional 4 years on, almost two as a SM would have helped.

But being "fresh" on the scene also gives me a great perspective on where most members are post-lvl1 and even completing lvl2.

I've been under (I think I got the math right) three commanders in one unit, and four (partially) in another. I've seen good commanders and I've seen some bad commanders. Even the good guys, with years of experience prior to taking command would call it a tough job, and certainly one that requires some guidance from above at times. A new guy, someone like me or a SM in for 1-2 years would probably have the higher echelon commander on speed-dial and nightly calls.

I've gotten glimpses into what a good run unit has going for a commander, and it's a lot of work. I can only imagine what it is like in a unit that is understaffed or lacking in quality staff overall. Can't be easy which is why some commanders fail/burn out well before their term is over. Thinking this over, I can see why some units are so focused on the cadet program and fail/don't meet the standard in the other missions. While CP is certainly not easy, it's the easiest way to run a unit - everyone works for the success of the CP, and darn anything else.

I would kill for a full staff.  It doesn't help that at least 3 (out of my 7 active seniors) are also on Wing staff.  The workload is immense.  So far the biggest thing I am thankful for is how dedicated my staff really are, especially since we've been undertaking a very agressive Wreaths Across America fundraiser for the first time, Cyber Patriot (2nd go round, trying to repeat our trip to nationals), and a multitude of other activities and community outreach.  We have been very very busy. 

We are accomplishing the mission, but I fear that as soon as we wrap up our fundraising efforts for WAA, we will have to deal with some "burnout", just strictly because of how much work it was spread out on so few people.

I had thought that I had an idea of the workload when I was the CDC,

I was very wrong. 


I would caution that anyone trying to start a new unit, or anyone about to take command make sure that you have all the people you need.  3 seniors may be the minimum, but it is no where near what needs to be accomplished.