List of CAP compliant VHF radios?

[Dad2-4]

Search is not my friend. And the VHF radio list link on Gocivilairpatrol.com isn't working.
Where can I find a list of approved VHF radios.

[SarDragon]

This should work.

https://comm.capnhq.gov/comm/equipment/equipment.cfm

[CommunicationsEquipment]

Search is not my friend. And the VHF radio list link on Gocivilairpatrol.com isn't working.
Where can I find a list of approved VHF radios.

Since I have been searching for P25 narrow band compliant radios, I found out that not all P25 narrow band radios are listed in the CAP VHF Compliant list. There are several other manufacturers that have P25 that are compliant.

If anyone else, has any questions send me a private message, and I will try to answer it.

[Eclipse]

There are several other manufacturers that have P25 that are compliant.

Yes, however CAP members are only allowed to use the ones on the list.

[JeffDG]

There are several other manufacturers that have P25 that are compliant.

Yes, however CAP members are only allowed to use the ones on the list.

The list is somewhat incomplete.

If the radio you're looking at isn't on the list, contact your Wing DC...answers come back really quickly when they get fired in.

[CommunicationsEquipment]

There are several other manufacturers that have P25 that are compliant.

Yes, however CAP members are only allowed to use the ones on the list.

The list is somewhat incomplete.

If the radio you're looking at isn't on the list, contact your Wing DC...answers come back really quickly when they get fired in.

For some reason the list is not complete. Since I know several people that are radio tech's and the Wing DC I ask if I don't know something about a radio.

[Brad]

There are several other manufacturers that have P25 that are compliant.

Yes, however CAP members are only allowed to use the ones on the list.

The list is somewhat incomplete.

If the radio you're looking at isn't on the list, contact your Wing DC...answers come back really quickly when they get fired in.

But see then again there's FCC compliant and NTIA compliant. Two sides of the same coin but we're stuck using NTIA standards, which don't always match up with FCC.

Now, having said that, if you look on the compliance list you'll see up top where you can fill out a link to submit a radio for review to see if it is compliant with standards or not. Now before you go sending in every digital LMR radio you own under the sun for review, here are the standards. Most of this information you can pull out of the tech specs in the user manual of your radio:

Narrowband Compliant (This is NOT the same as P25. P25 is a digital mode.)
Freq stability: 2.5 PPM
Tx Unwanted Emissions: 50+10log(Pz) or 70 dB, whichever is less
Rx Adjacent Chan Selectivity: 45 dB
Rx Intermod Rejection: 75 dB
Rx Spurious Rejection: 75db
Rx Conducted Spurious Emissions: -57 dBm

As a benchmark, the EF Johnson being the "gold standard" for CAP, meets all this criteria (obviously) with 70 db Tx Unwanted. For comparison, my Yaesu 7900R ham rig has similar specifications. It is off on the freq stability by twice (5 ppm as opposed to 2.5 ppm) and the spurious emissions are simply listed as "at least -60 dB below". So yea, finding a radio to meet the standards isn't all that hard. Most if not all modern LMR public safety radios fall under the standard.

[CommunicationsEquipment]

There are several other manufacturers that have P25 that are compliant.

Yes, however CAP members are only allowed to use the ones on the list.

The list is somewhat incomplete.

If the radio you're looking at isn't on the list, contact your Wing DC...answers come back really quickly when they get fired in.

But see then again there's FCC compliant and NTIA compliant. Two sides of the same coin but we're stuck using NTIA standards, which don't always match up with FCC.

Now, having said that, if you look on the compliance list you'll see up top where you can fill out a link to submit a radio for review to see if it is compliant with standards or not. Now before you go sending in every digital LMR radio you own under the sun for review, here are the standards. Most of this information you can pull out of the tech specs in the user manual of your radio:

Narrowband Compliant (This is NOT the same as P25. P25 is a digital mode.)
Freq stability: 2.5 PPM
Tx Unwanted Emissions: 50+10log(Pz) or 70 dB, whichever is less
Rx Adjacent Chan Selectivity: 45 dB
Rx Intermod Rejection: 75 dB
Rx Spurious Rejection: 75db
Rx Conducted Spurious Emissions: -57 dBm

As a benchmark, the EF Johnson being the "gold standard" for CAP, meets all this criteria (obviously) with 70 db Tx Unwanted. For comparison, my Yaesu 7900R ham rig has similar specifications. It is off on the freq stability by twice (5 ppm as opposed to 2.5 ppm) and the spurious emissions are simply listed as "at least -60 dB below". So yea, finding a radio to meet the standards isn't all that hard. Most if not all modern LMR public safety radios fall under the standard.

I did send a notice like it says on the page with a attached document that had the information, but it was never updated.
The only thing I don't like about the EF Johnson the price on them, even though they are not Motorola, Harris, Thales, etc. they charge almost the same. One thing that is true "you get what you pay for".

Regarding the quote "Yes, however CAP members are only allowed to use the ones on the list." is not really followed by most anyone, since you can get most of the radio off ebay with all the features like trunking, encryption, etc. even though they shouldn't have them, and or some if not most are pirated radio coming from china if the tags don't match etc.

Since there is no written law that strictly states "civilians are not allowed to have or use government radio/s" technically/legally the can use them as long as they don't transmit on FOUO frequencies, and some government agencies do auction off the radio equipment if they don't use it as a trade in. The only thing they remove is the frequencies most of the time but not always.

[Brad]

There are several other manufacturers that have P25 that are compliant.

Yes, however CAP members are only allowed to use the ones on the list.

The list is somewhat incomplete.

If the radio you're looking at isn't on the list, contact your Wing DC...answers come back really quickly when they get fired in.

But see then again there's FCC compliant and NTIA compliant. Two sides of the same coin but we're stuck using NTIA standards, which don't always match up with FCC.

Now, having said that, if you look on the compliance list you'll see up top where you can fill out a link to submit a radio for review to see if it is compliant with standards or not. Now before you go sending in every digital LMR radio you own under the sun for review, here are the standards. Most of this information you can pull out of the tech specs in the user manual of your radio:

Narrowband Compliant (This is NOT the same as P25. P25 is a digital mode.)
Freq stability: 2.5 PPM
Tx Unwanted Emissions: 50+10log(Pz) or 70 dB, whichever is less
Rx Adjacent Chan Selectivity: 45 dB
Rx Intermod Rejection: 75 dB
Rx Spurious Rejection: 75db
Rx Conducted Spurious Emissions: -57 dBm

As a benchmark, the EF Johnson being the "gold standard" for CAP, meets all this criteria (obviously) with 70 db Tx Unwanted. For comparison, my Yaesu 7900R ham rig has similar specifications. It is off on the freq stability by twice (5 ppm as opposed to 2.5 ppm) and the spurious emissions are simply listed as "at least -60 dB below". So yea, finding a radio to meet the standards isn't all that hard. Most if not all modern LMR public safety radios fall under the standard.

I did send a notice like it says on the page with a attached document that had the information, but it was never updated.
The only thing I don't like about the EF Johnson the price on them, even though they are not Motorola, Harris, Thales, etc. they charge almost the same. One thing that is true "you get what you pay for".

Regarding the quote "Yes, however CAP members are only allowed to use the ones on the list." is not really followed by most anyone, since you can get most of the radio off ebay with all the features like trunking, encryption, etc. even though they shouldn't have them, and or some if not most are pirated radio coming from china if the tags don't match etc.

Since there is no written law that strictly states "civilians are not allowed to have or use government radio/s" technically/legally the can use them as long as they don't transmit on FOUO frequencies, and some government agencies do auction off the radio equipment if they don't use it as a trade in. The only thing they remove is the frequencies most of the time but not always.

I never said they are "government-only radios". Anyone under the sun can buy an EF-Johnson 5300 mobile, Motorola XTS 5000 portable, or any other radio listed on the compliance list and use them for a legal purpose as long as they have the license or authorization to do so. I use an XTS 5000 and XTL 5000 at work all the time being in law enforcement dispatch, and as such we fall under FCC regulations...it just so happens the radio is also NTIA-compliant. I've also seen private construction companies use the same radio for their operations, usually in a VHF or other conventional capacity, but still.

Nothing in a radio's nature itself makes it "government only" or whatever. It's what is put in it, and the authority that sets the operating regulations of the user, in this case the NTIA, CAP NTC, and USAF with regards to our equipment and frequencies.

[Eclipse]

Regarding the quote "Yes, however CAP members are only allowed to use the ones on the list." is not really followed by most anyone,

Untrue.

since you can get most of the radio off ebay with all the features like trunking, encryption, etc. even though they shouldn't have them, and or some if not most are pirated radio coming from china if the tags don't match etc.

We have these things referred to as "regulations".  Members follow them if they value their affiliation with CAP, not to mention the
ethics of the oath we ascribe to.

Members are only allowed to use licensed radios for CAP business.  To get a radio licensed, it must be compliance certified by a CAP radio technician. CAP radio technicians will only certify compliant equipment, so investing in Chinese knock-offs, or illegally tweaking equipment to
work on our frequencies or bandwidth specifications is a bad idea.

Do people do it?  Probably.  People do a lot of things.  That doesn't change the above.