New senior member uniforms

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Uniform combinations: He basically said that the profusion of member-combos is going to have to stop. Blues shirts with grey slacks, white aviator shirts with blues slacks or other unauthorized pants, tennis shoes with BDUs...all going to have to be fixed.

No disrespect to the Colonel, or to you, but in all my years of CAP I have never seen anything that egregious; i.e., the mixing of colours.

I think the worst I have seen is a Lt Col wearing the AF blue jacket with the G/W, and a Major wearing metal grade on the AF blue jacket.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone wearing running shoes with a CAP uniform.

That's not to say it doesn't happen...I just haven't seen it.

[tsrup]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone wearing running shoes with a CAP uniform.

That's not to say it doesn't happen...I just haven't seen it.

We see it occasionally with the BDUs.

It's usually accompanied by a doctor's order.

[a2capt]

Sort of on-topic...last night my Wing CC, who also sits on the Uniform Board, visited our unit. He was wearing the new tactical pants we've been talking about for the last couple weeks. They look pretty good, although I probably would have chosen a different color than charcoal gray. They are Propper, available from bdu.com. You can wear them with the golf shirt.

What new pants? Where's the ICL. Where's the revised publication, even better.  Until it's published, you've got nothing more than someone possibly doing exactly what you indicated needs to "stop". The mixing of uniform parts, and being of a visibile part of the chain of command, setting a great example too. 

Do as I say, not as I do. Don't mind me, we're just testing this for wear.

Just testing you say? put out a note about it. The RM does it like that.

Otherwise you get things like at a recent PCR conference, the Region CC authorized khaki pants with the golf shirt for that event, and suddenly there were a few people wearing that combination at other CAWG events because "it's now authorized", and in person twice when I came across this, I produced the announcement that went on to say in the same context, that it's for the conference only.

"oh"...

Or like the changes they briefed command on at the recent board meeting, that were made last year, but never told anyone else about?

As for the list of example infractions on mixing stuff, not that I'm saying it doesn't happen, but really? Some of those are extremely pushing it, and some sound like CSU usage that was after the deadline, or people are remembering too far back. Either way, comments like that could be construed as "until we see that stop, you'll get nothing new" and then who is the entity that needs to see "that" stop, how do they know it has officially "stopped", and when do they make that determination?

As much so, wouldn't it seem a bit ridiculous to effectively punish an entire organization on the actions of a pittance percentage of it's members, or even those whom it has no control over at all? Look, a wannabee poser in the airport wearing a mixture of uniform parts bought from the thrift store! OMG! That's no, no new uniforms for CAP! Not like that hasn't happened before, or the former. But it's still ridiculous.

As for speciality hats leading to specialty shirts? There is certainly precedent for that. The CAWG Ground Team Uniform ...and I'm darn sure that other Wing's know about it. If the National Guard is called out to participate in an activity, they wear their uniform, they may put reflective vests over it, but they wear it. National has put out that we need to have reflective vests in certain conditions/instances, and that should have been good enough for CAWG too, which ironically, organized a group purchase of reflective vests .. that they're in effect saying you can't use, but you need to buy something else instead.

NHQ needs to do away with that and kill it off, once again, like it was done years ago.

[Garibaldi]

Sort of on-topic...last night my Wing CC, who also sits on the Uniform Board, visited our unit. He was wearing the new tactical pants we've been talking about for the last couple weeks. They look pretty good, although I probably would have chosen a different color than charcoal gray. They are Propper, available from bdu.com. You can wear them with the golf shirt.

*snip*

Like I said, this comes from one of the Uniform Board members relaying information to his subordinates. Probably IS an ICL forthcoming.

Why must you destroy an ant farm with an ICBM? Good Lord. If I'd said this information came from Lt. Sniffinthepits yeah, you'd have reason to tear this apart. This came directly from a member of the Uniform Board, not someone who attended the f'ing conference and half-listened while checking his email.

[tsrup]

Sort of on-topic...last night my Wing CC, who also sits on the Uniform Board, visited our unit. He was wearing the new tactical pants we've been talking about for the last couple weeks. They look pretty good, although I probably would have chosen a different color than charcoal gray. They are Propper, available from bdu.com. You can wear them with the golf shirt.

*snip*

Like I said, this comes from one of the Uniform Board members relaying information to his subordinates. Probably IS an ICL forthcoming.

Why must you destroy an ant farm with an ICBM? Good Lord. If I'd said this information came from Lt. Sniffinthepits yeah, you'd have reason to tear this apart. This came directly from a member of the Uniform Board, not someone who attended the f'ing conference and half-listened while checking his email.

Because it is still anecdotal.

It doesn't exist until it's published, regardless of who you hear it from.


Committees do change their minds from time to time, or in some cases, individual committee members still believe that their position is correct despite contrary arguments, and relay their position to their members anyways.

"This will happen" is little more than committee speak for "This is my position".


Regardless, unless its published, it doesn't apply.

[Garibaldi]

Sort of on-topic...last night my Wing CC, who also sits on the Uniform Board, visited our unit. He was wearing the new tactical pants we've been talking about for the last couple weeks. They look pretty good, although I probably would have chosen a different color than charcoal gray. They are Propper, available from bdu.com. You can wear them with the golf shirt.

*snip*

Like I said, this comes from one of the Uniform Board members relaying information to his subordinates. Probably IS an ICL forthcoming.

Why must you destroy an ant farm with an ICBM? Good Lord. If I'd said this information came from Lt. Sniffinthepits yeah, you'd have reason to tear this apart. This came directly from a member of the Uniform Board, not someone who attended the f'ing conference and half-listened while checking his email.

Because it is still anecdotal.

It doesn't exist until it's published, regardless of who you hear it from.


Committees do change their minds from time to time, or in some cases, individual committee members still believe that their position is correct despite contrary arguments, and relay their position to their members anyways.

"This will happen" is little more than committee speak for "This is my position".


Regardless, unless its published, it doesn't apply.

FINE!!!!!

*stomps off to corner to pout*

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

As much so, wouldn't it seem a bit ridiculous to effectively punish an entire organization on the actions of a pittance percentage of it's members, or even those whom it has no control over at all?

Which has been the driving force behind CAP uniforms ever since the berry boards were imposed on us...punish the whole for the acts of a few.   The "solution?"  Make everything grey.

But it's still ridiculous.

No argument here.

[a2capt]

Uh... yup.

Plus having sat through many of those exact movements where <insert commander/vice here> "just came back" from <insert meeting here> and "this is what (we) <talked about/heard/will be coming/is going away> and yes, it either happens, happens differently, never happens or just is never heard from again. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Uh... yup.

Plus having sat through many of those exact movements where <insert commander/vice here> "just came back" from <insert meeting here> and "this is what (we) <talked about/heard/will be coming/is going away> and yes, it either happens, happens differently, never happens or just is never heard from again.

I have heard so many uniform rumours over the years it's silly.  One of the wilder ones was that when the Air Force ditched the McPeak sleeve rings, CAP were going to keep them, except in light blue or (tympani roll!) grey.  Obviously it didn't happen.

[Trung Si Ma]

I just love these arguments.

1.  Spent 20+ years in the Army and got all of the awards, decorations, atta-boys, and other "I be cool" badges that I will ever need.
2.  Was a cadet officer, so I got to wear enough ribbons that I had another cadet follow behind me with a pillow with the ones that didn't fit on the jacket.
3.  Have a very low numbered GRW.
4.  Work in an industry where the "customer" wants to see the fully occupied "I love me" wall whenever they come to visit.

I tell you all of that so that you understand the following:

I WILL NOT WEAR ANOTHER MILITARY STYLE UNIFORM UNLESS I AM AT A FUNERAL FOR A COMRADE - AND THAT WILL BE AN ASU.

For CAP purposes that means a golf shirt or a blazer.  My 101 card is more important than a set of blue or white uniforms and speaks far more highly of my use to CAP than my "uniformity".

Don't want to see me in a golf shirt?  Don't come to someplace where my IC2 credential gets in the way of your ribbons.  Don't ask me to teach at any of your activities if the wearing of the "proper" UOD is more important than the quality of the training.  Don't come to any of the free ground schools or ICS-300/400 classes that I teach.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I'm sure there are enough team players out there who won't set ultimatums before teaching a course, etc. Enjoy your polo and your extremes.

[Trung Si Ma]

I'm sure there are enough team players out there who won't set ultimatums before teaching a course, etc. Enjoy your polo and your extremes.

Why thank you, I do.

[Eclipse]

Don't want to see me in a golf shirt?  Don't come to someplace where my IC2 credential gets in the way of your ribbons.  Don't ask me to teach at any of your activities if the wearing of the "proper" UOD is more important than the quality of the training.  Don't come to any of the free ground schools or ICS-300/400 classes that I teach.

We're all very impressed.

There's also the interesting stance you're taking that somehow tries to make proper uniform wear and good training mutually exclusive.  I'm
sure the military academies and training schools will be relieved that they can revert to flip-flops.

BTW - ES is only 1/3 of our stated mission, and in the CP, proper wear of a military-style uniform is one of the instruction and grading points.

Lastly, this attitude of "BTDT, don't care what I wear." Doesn't fly either.  No one cares what you did elsewhere, in other services, or last week
as it pertains to this issue.  It's 100% irrelevant to CAP that you spent years in uniform elsewhere.

[Critical AOA]

Trung, you just don't get it.  To many on here, CAP is all about wearing the uniform and all of its associated bling.  The mission and the requisite knowledge and qualifications come second, at best.  The more shiny and colorful objects they can pin on their chest, the higher feeling of self-worth and importance they feel.  Do not try to take that away from them.  They will be crushed.

[Trung Si Ma]

Trung, you just don't get it.  To many on here, CAP is all about wearing the uniform and all of its associated bling.  The mission and the requisite knowledge and qualifications come second, at best.  The more shiny and colorful objects they can pin on their chest, the higher feeling of self-worth and importance they feel.  Do not try to take that away from them.  They will be crushed.

Ah, but I do get it.

As Jean Larteguy said in the classic book "The Centurians" ...


        "I'd like to have two armies: one for display, with lovely guns, tanks, little soldiers, fanfares, staffs, distinguished and doddering generals, and dear little regimental officers who would be deeply concerned over their general's bowel movements or their colonel's piles:  an army that would be shown for a modest fee on every fairground in the country.

        The other would be the real one, composed entirely of young enthusiasts in camouflaged battle dress, who would not be put on display but from whom impossible efforts would be demanded and to whom all sorts of tricks would be taught.  That's the army in which I should like to fight."

Guess which one wears blues.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Trung, you just don't get it.  To many on here, CAP is all about wearing the uniform and all of its associated bling.  The mission and the requisite knowledge and qualifications come second, at best.  The more shiny and colorful objects they can pin on their chest, the higher feeling of self-worth and importance they feel.  Do not try to take that away from them.  They will be crushed.

Or you know, wear what is prescribed, and get the job done. I would have no issue showing up at a meeting wearing the Adidas blue wind breaker, dirty work jeans, and sneakers. But that will just lead to others doing the same thing, and eventually no one is going to bother with the uniforms. I'm about 99% convinced that Trung Si Ma is so anti-uniform not because it's a uniform but because he wants to be different and do his own thing. That's fine, but don't accuse everyone else who follows the rules to be all about bling and hardkewl. You have an issue with the uniforms? Great, keep your polo and enjoy what you can in CAP. But don't be surprised when you DON'T get to do the things that require one. It's a choice and you made it.

[Eclipse]

Guess which one wears blues.

The one with self respect, pride, and no chip on their shoulder?

[Trung Si Ma]

...Great, keep your polo and enjoy what you can in CAP. But don't be surprised when you DON'T get to do the things that require one. It's a choice and you made it.

And what, exactly, would I not be able to do in CAP that could not be done in either a polo or a blazer?

[Trung Si Ma]

Guess which one wears blues.

The one with self respect, pride, and no chip on their shoulder?

I'll take the one that can accomplish the mission.

[Eclipse]

Guess which one wears blues.

The one with self respect, pride, and no chip on their shoulder?

I'll take the one that can accomplish the mission.

Which mission, which duty?  And for the record, their are wings where IC's where blues or whites in recognition of their role as a "manager or managers".