New senior member uniforms

[Trung Si Ma]

In what world are Polos an alternative?

Other than when there is a specified UOD, when is it not?

[AngelWings]

In what world are Polos an alternative?

Other than when there is a specified UOD, when is it not?

When you're at the golf course!!!

[RogueLeader]

And there is that chip on the shoulder. Wouldn't want to serve anywhere NEAR you.

I can respect someone not wanting to wear anything but a polo, but if you don't have enough respect for other members, then I'd simply avoid and ignore you.

P.S. for someone with so much hatred for CAP uniforms, why is it that almost 29% of your posts are in the uniform section?

As somebody that HAS served with him, you really would, and you are seeing a chip that isn't there.  While we disagree on whether he should wear a military style uniform or not, that does not mean he hates the military style uniforms.  Which was said numerous times.

Trung, I'll be glad to have you in my foxhole.  You still need to fly up for that beer.

[Trung Si Ma]

This harkens to an (incorrect) assumption that wearing a uniform properly and being exceptional at the mission are mutually exclusive.

Your words back to you with a slight change - This harkens to an (incorrect) assumption that wearing a uniform properly and being exceptional at the mission are mutually inclusive.

BTW - who said anything about wearing a uniform properly?  To me, this is about the belief that only the "fat and fuzzy" wear corporate uniforms.

Oh and the slings about playing dress up are done by people who clearly don't understand the significance of the duties that CAP does. 

If the uniform is so important to the duties done by CAP, why do we let our customers tell us not to wear them? (CAPR 60-6, para 2-8)

It is not the AF's uniform, it is OUR uniform. 

If it is not the AF's uniform, then why does CAPM 39-1, para 1-1 tell us that final approval rests with Headquarters USAF?

If you think all CAP is is a method for people to play dress-up than maybe you need to reevaluate why you commit so much time to the program.

The real reasons that members wear any specific one of the multitude of authorized uniforms has nothing to do with the time I spend on the program.  Just as my reasons for NOT wearing a USAF uniform should not be of concern to you as long as I correctly wear an authorized uniform while performing my tasks.

While this has been a fun way to waste an afternoon waiting for the ceilings to lift, I must now go grab my golf shirt so that I can go fly some orientation flights.

Bottom line - there are many of us who meet the requirements of Attachments 1 and 2 of CAPM 39-1 wearing polo's, not just the "fat and the fuzzy"

[Trung Si Ma]

You still need to fly up for that beer.

Working on some dates for that around overseas trips for the Army.

[NCRblues]

Never said YOU couldn't play dress up, just said that I won't.

Well, it seems that the U.S Army War College, along with West Point, disagrees with you. As this is one of the quotes that is used in teaching and West Point stresses the reading of "War as I knew it" by Gen. Patton

"It is absurd to believe that soldiers who cannot be made to wear the proper uniform can be induced to move forward in battle. Officers who fail to perform their duty by correcting small violations and in enforcing proper conduct are incapable of leading."
- General George S. Patton Jr., April 1943

I really enjoyed your saying that if the course director does not want you in polo than you will not attend. That's very nice. Forsake those that serve with you and forsake their advancement and training because you just can not be bothered to put on blue pants and a blue shirt for a few hours.

[tsrup]

This harkens to an (incorrect) assumption that wearing a uniform properly and being exceptional at the mission are mutually exclusive.

Your words back to you with a slight change - This harkens to an (incorrect) assumption that wearing a uniform properly and being exceptional at the mission are mutually inclusive.

BTW - who said anything about wearing a uniform properly?  To me, this is about the belief that only the "fat and fuzzy" wear corporate uniforms.

Oh and the slings about playing dress up are done by people who clearly don't understand the significance of the duties that CAP does. 

If the uniform is so important to the duties done by CAP, why do we let our customers tell us not to wear them? (CAPR 60-6, para 2-8)

It is not the AF's uniform, it is OUR uniform. 

If it is not the AF's uniform, then why does CAPM 39-1, para 1-1 tell us that final approval rests with Headquarters USAF?

If you think all CAP is is a method for people to play dress-up than maybe you need to reevaluate why you commit so much time to the program.

The real reasons that members wear any specific one of the multitude of authorized uniforms has nothing to do with the time I spend on the program.  Just as my reasons for NOT wearing a USAF uniform should not be of concern to you as long as I correctly wear an authorized uniform while performing my tasks.

While this has been a fun way to waste an afternoon waiting for the ceilings to lift, I must now go grab my golf shirt so that I can go fly some orientation flights.

Bottom line - there are many of us who meet the requirements of Attachments 1 and 2 of CAPM 39-1 wearing polo's, not just the "fat and the fuzzy"

I have no problem with why or why not someone wants to wear a polo uniform.  It is in-fact, a uniform as prescribed by our manual.

I do take issue with the broad "wannabee" brush that you are using to paint members who chose to wear the blues or G/W combo.

And yes, while the AF-style (emphasis mine) uniform requires approval by the USAF because it uses AF components, the uniform as a whole is ours.  The AF doesn't wear it, CAP does.

So put all the straw men up that you want, the point is the only issues I have with your statements are that you are insinuating that those that choose to wear blues are merely playing "dress-up".

That is an attitude problem, not a uniform one.

[Trung Si Ma]

I really enjoyed your saying that if the course director does not want you in polo than you will not attend. That's very nice. Forsake those that serve with you and forsake their advancement and training because you just can not be bothered to put on blue pants and a blue shirt for a few hours.

All of my local seniors who have at least six months experience in CAP have SLS, and we are running a CLC in a few months to get the ones who need it qualified.

I also think that you've got your argument backwards.  Should the course director forsake qualified instructors in authorized uniforms because they don't like a particular uniform?  That would be like saying that just because I don't want to wear blues, you have to wear a blazer to attend training instead of that perfectly good, authorized, blue uniform that you choose to wear.

[NCRblues]

I also think that you've got your argument backwards.  Should the course director forsake qualified instructors in authorized uniforms because they don't like a particular uniform? 

Why should the course director, appointed by someone above you in good faith, give up his/her authority to place a UOD? You are not the only instructor who can teach I am sure of that, but you seem to be the only one with heartburn over putting on an AF style uniform.

[tsrup]

I also think that you've got your argument backwards.  Should the course director forsake qualified instructors in authorized uniforms because they don't like a particular uniform?  That would be like saying that just because I don't want to wear blues, you have to wear a blazer to attend training instead of that perfectly good, authorized, blue uniform that you choose to wear.

I think it's less unreasonable to mandate a uniform for an event that you expect every member to own as prescribed by regulation.

If I make the UOD short sleeve blues or G/W combo, then I know that there will only be two different uniforms present.  Not everyone has the polo, not everyone has BDUS/BBDUS, not everyone has the Sage/Blue flight suit.

All members should have at least the SS Blues or G/W combo.  That is if they are following the regulation.

[RogueLeader]

I do take issue with the broad "wannabee" brush that you are using to paint members who chose to wear the blues or G/W combo.

So put all the straw men up that you want, the point is the only issues I have with your statements are that you are insinuating that those that choose to wear blues are merely playing "dress-up".

That is an attitude problem, not a uniform one.

As a matter of fact, g/w and blues are more "dressy" than a polo shirt.  So, yes, those wearing blues, g/w ARE dressing up.  That does not mean that you (or anybody else) is being a wannabe.  As a member that served with him, you are attributing things to him that are not there.

You are right that it is an attitude problem.  It is yours.

[tsrup]

I do take issue with the broad "wannabee" brush that you are using to paint members who chose to wear the blues or G/W combo.

So put all the straw men up that you want, the point is the only issues I have with your statements are that you are insinuating that those that choose to wear blues are merely playing "dress-up".

That is an attitude problem, not a uniform one.

As a matter of fact, g/w and blues are more "dressy" than a polo shirt.  So, yes, those wearing blues, g/w ARE dressing up.  That does not mean that you (or anybody else) is being a wannabe.  As a member that served with him, you are attributing things to him that are not there.

You are right that it is an attitude problem.  It is yours.

Disagree.

To insinuate that those that do wear anything other than a polo are "play[ing] dress-up" (his words not mine) is clearly inflammatory and disrespectful.

[Eclipse]

I also think that you've got your argument backwards.  Should the course director forsake qualified instructors in authorized uniforms because they don't like a particular uniform?  That would be like saying that just because I don't want to wear blues, you have to wear a blazer to attend training instead of that perfectly good, authorized, blue uniform that you choose to wear.

Perhaps your inability to present the image requested no longer makes you "qualified"...

To the other point, a roomful of service uniforms, in whatever color, says "professional" at a much higher volume then a golf shirt, especially
when you're standing at the front of the room.

[Trung Si Ma]

Why should the course director, appointed by someone above you in good faith, give up his/her authority to place a UOD? You are not the only instructor who can teach I am sure of that, but you seem to be the only one with heartburn over putting on an AF style uniform.

Did not say that the course director could not specify the UOD, nor that I am the only one qualified to teach a specific subject. 

I said that IF they wanted ME to teach, then THEY would have to realize that I'm going to do it in an authorized uniform that I wanted to wear.  If the CD doesn't want me to wear that uniform, then they won't schedule me to teach for them.

And no, I am not the only one who feels this way.

[Eclipse]

I said that IF they wanted ME to teach, then THEY would have to realize that I'm going to do it in an authorized uniform that I wanted to wear.  If the CD doesn't want me to wear that uniform, then they won't schedule me to teach for them.

Nothing warms my heart like a team player.

[Trung Si Ma]

I think it's less unreasonable to mandate a uniform for an event that you expect every member to own as prescribed by regulation.

To own is required, to wear is optional.

You have to make an individual choice in this matter after acquisition.  I've chosen to just say no.

[Trung Si Ma]

Nothing warms my heart like a team player.

Glad to be of service.

[Trung Si Ma]

To the other point, a roomful of service uniforms, in whatever color, says "professional" at a much higher volume then a golf shirt, especially
when you're standing at the front of the room.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Eclipse]

When did "Service Before Self" get replaced with "I won't, you can't make me?"

[jeders]

When did "Service Before Self" get replaced with "I won't, you can't make me?"

Apparently when the polo shirt got introduced.