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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Hysterical History  |  Topic: C/FO
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Author Topic: C/FO  (Read 19615 times)
Grumpy
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 896

« Reply #60 on: November 24, 2014, 01:04:34 PM »

With me sitting at 331XXX, when I saw the 145's, I thought.. "wow, that's half.. " now, the newest to be added to our unit yesterday just cracked 5170XX. Pretty soon it will be double what I was.

How about C-9114951?

Wow Phil, if that was your cadet ID, you're older than I am.

Or 691508?
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Grumpy
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Posts: 896

« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2014, 01:16:15 PM »

I joined in May of 1960.  my Cadet SN was C-33-3439.

I joined in 1959, a year before you.  I wonder how they were breaking down the cadet ID numbers.  Yours is smaller than mine and broken up. Mine wasn't broken up.
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Grumpy
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 896

« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2014, 01:36:27 PM »

Typically the golden pip was when we became flight commanders. As Mike noted we did not have past C/MSgt. You typically were flight commander until C/1LT and then you started working on staff. I became XO as a C/1LT, Cadet Commander as C/Capt, rotated out to Dept. Cadet Commander as C/Maj-C/LTCol to allow other officers to gain experience as XO and CC, attend additional encampments as staff, focus on Eaker and Spaatz, and then I moved to a smaller squadron in MO that I helped found where I was Cadet Commander again.

I know I'm bumping this thread, but I have a question. What did a C/FO do? Obviously, C/NCOs were flight sergeants and the like, and C/officers did officer stuff, but I can't think of what a C/FO might have done.

What would you think if they changed the insignia of rank for c/2nd Lt and Major to the color gold. It wouldn't change any of the training or the rank.  It would simply have the cadet rank insignia more closely resemble the military and senior member ranks. "They" already have gold pips and diamonds available for cadets.

Just wondering.  I'll go back to sleep now.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,338

« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2014, 01:39:55 PM »

I would think VG's revenue missed a quarterly mark.
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Storm Chaser
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,680

« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2014, 01:53:57 PM »


Typically the golden pip was when we became flight commanders. As Mike noted we did not have past C/MSgt. You typically were flight commander until C/1LT and then you started working on staff. I became XO as a C/1LT, Cadet Commander as C/Capt, rotated out to Dept. Cadet Commander as C/Maj-C/LTCol to allow other officers to gain experience as XO and CC, attend additional encampments as staff, focus on Eaker and Spaatz, and then I moved to a smaller squadron in MO that I helped found where I was Cadet Commander again.

I know I'm bumping this thread, but I have a question. What did a C/FO do? Obviously, C/NCOs were flight sergeants and the like, and C/officers did officer stuff, but I can't think of what a C/FO might have done.

What would you think if they changed the insignia of rank for c/2nd Lt and Major to the color gold. It wouldn't change any of the training or the rank.  It would simply have the cadet rank insignia more closely resemble the military and senior member ranks. "They" already have gold pips and diamonds available for cadets.

Just wondering.  I'll go back to sleep now.

That's not necessary. The reason the 2d Lt and Maj insignias are gold is to differentiate them with the 1st Lt and Lt Col insignias, which are silver. That's a not an issue with our cadet insignias as they're all different.
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Grumpy
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Posts: 896

« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2014, 02:37:26 PM »

I know reason for the silver and gold. I was just thinking along the lines of esthetics and to more closely resemble the military.  No big thing.
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PHall
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Posts: 6,349

« Reply #66 on: November 24, 2014, 10:11:58 PM »

With me sitting at 331XXX, when I saw the 145's, I thought.. "wow, that's half.. " now, the newest to be added to our unit yesterday just cracked 5170XX. Pretty soon it will be double what I was.

How about C-9114951?

Wow Phil, if that was your cadet ID, you're older than I am.

Or 691508?

Yep, that's my olde cadet ID. Issued in Dec 1969!
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Jaison009
Seasoned Member

Posts: 263
Unit: SW-AR-040

« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2014, 10:35:28 PM »

While there are some who might agree, I think this would be even more confusing to folks. All Army and Marine JROTC programs use the same rank structure for their officers and it is a historical tie to our history as Army Air Corps. Since JROTC came into effect in 1916, my guess is that we built our ranks off of them and available insignia. I have heard older former cadet members recall when their ranks were shiny metal (which if true to me would indicate that JROTC/ROTC insignia was most likely used in the early days of the program. Gold diamonds were also discussed for a Cadet/Brig Gen role). I think historically it would be a disservice to all of the C/WO, C/FO, and those who for a brief moment were awarded gold diamonds.

Typically the golden pip was when we became flight commanders. As Mike noted we did not have past C/MSgt. You typically were flight commander until C/1LT and then you started working on staff. I became XO as a C/1LT, Cadet Commander as C/Capt, rotated out to Dept. Cadet Commander as C/Maj-C/LTCol to allow other officers to gain experience as XO and CC, attend additional encampments as staff, focus on Eaker and Spaatz, and then I moved to a smaller squadron in MO that I helped found where I was Cadet Commander again.

I know I'm bumping this thread, but I have a question. What did a C/FO do? Obviously, C/NCOs were flight sergeants and the like, and C/officers did officer stuff, but I can't think of what a C/FO might have done.

What would you think if they changed the insignia of rank for c/2nd Lt and Major to the color gold. It wouldn't change any of the training or the rank.  It would simply have the cadet rank insignia more closely resemble the military and senior member ranks. "They" already have gold pips and diamonds available for cadets.

Just wondering.  I'll go back to sleep now.
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ColonelJack
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,369
Unit: SER-GA-153

« Reply #68 on: November 25, 2014, 09:02:44 AM »

While there are some who might agree, I think this would be even more confusing to folks. All Army and Marine JROTC programs use the same rank structure for their officers and it is a historical tie to our history as Army Air Corps. Since JROTC came into effect in 1916, my guess is that we built our ranks off of them and available insignia. I have heard older former cadet members recall when their ranks were shiny metal (which if true to me would indicate that JROTC/ROTC insignia was most likely used in the early days of the program. Gold diamonds were also discussed for a Cadet/Brig Gen role). I think historically it would be a disservice to all of the C/WO, C/FO, and those who for a brief moment were awarded gold diamonds.

The Chicago Public Schools' JROTC program has two cadets who hold the grade of Cadet Brigadier General ... they use four diamonds for it.  (Even if it's an AFJROTC cadet.  Should it be a Navy JROTC cadet, they use the same insignia but call it Cadet Rear Admiral.)

Jack
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Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., Civil Air Patrol
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
wacapgh
Seasoned Member

Posts: 202

« Reply #69 on: November 26, 2014, 06:09:41 PM »

I was a cadet back in 1977-79 and seemed like it was C/WO back then.  But that could be poor memory.

And, you could not wear the shoulder boards until reaching 2LT. Probably was a factor in the "you're not really an officer yet" mentality.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,508
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #70 on: November 26, 2014, 06:13:53 PM »

I was a cadet back in 1977-79 and seemed like it was C/WO back then.  But that could be poor memory.

And, you could not wear the shoulder boards until reaching 2LT. Probably was a factor in the "you're not really an officer yet" mentality.

BTDT. Disappointing. I was among the first C/WOs in NJWG.

It did eventually change to where C/WOs could wear the shoulder boards.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,846
Unit: Earth

« Reply #71 on: November 26, 2014, 07:03:21 PM »

I was a cadet back in 1977-79 and seemed like it was C/WO back then.  But that could be poor memory.

Cadet Warrant Officer was created in 1968.  It was changed from C/WO to Cadet Flight Officer in 1984.  In 1998, the C/FO was removed. 
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Mitchell 1969
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Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #72 on: March 05, 2015, 05:33:02 AM »

Remember that the grade of cadet warrant officer/cadet flight officer was commensurate with the Gen. Billy Mitchell Award. Pretty much whatever goes with the Mitchell starts now with the grade of cadet second lieutenant. A cadet flight officer was still a cadet officer, just with a gold moonpie.

Bumping this to say "Not always."

Between 1965 and 1968, Mitchell Award earned promotion to.....Cadet Master Sergeant. In order to make Cadet 2nd Lieutenant, the cadet had to complete the first achievement of Phase III.

In practice, that rarely happened. In the time between submitting for the Mitchell and actually receiving it, most cadets ending Phase II charged right in and completed the first Phase III achievement. The net result looked like the cadet received the Mitchell and became a cadet officer all at the same time. But I knew 2-3 guys who dragged their feet, got the Mitchell and 6 stripes, then got Cadet 2nd Lieutenant a few weeks later.


This all changed in 1968. Cadet Warrant Officer came about specifically to tie Mitchell to cadet officer.
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Brad
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Unit: MER-SC-020

« Reply #73 on: March 05, 2015, 07:26:03 AM »

A good look-through of the Winter Command Council minutes shows that there is discussion to eliminate Flight Officer ranks for those in that gray area before the big gray area ;)
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Brad Lee
Maj, CAP
Assistant Director of Communications
SCWG
K4RMN
AirAux
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 743

« Reply #74 on: March 05, 2015, 10:27:12 AM »

Strange, I joined this time in 9/1979, my ID is 1250..  My wife joined in 4/1989 and her ID is 1255..  Our last names are different so that shouldn't have had anything to do with it.  I was a senior member for a year in Kansas in 1969 or 70.  I was a cadet in Wisconsin for a couple of years in 62-64.  House burned down after that and I have no idea as to what my serial number was.  I went to encampment as a cadet at Chanute AFB.  You wouldn't believe the number of different uniforms that I have worn in CAP, starting with the lovely Khaki's. 
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SarDragon
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Posts: 10,508
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #75 on: March 05, 2015, 10:18:58 PM »

Regarding CAPIDs, here's just about everything you might want to know:

OK, here's one older thread discussing CAPIDs. Go down to post #16, and start reading. Sorry, circular reference. It's the thread we're in now. Post #16 is where the good stuff starts.

Another.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 10:35:24 PM by SarDragon » Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Garibaldi
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,323
Unit: SER-GA-045

Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« Reply #76 on: March 06, 2015, 07:36:35 AM »

Funny story. At our meeting we were debriefing on the new cadet protection policy, and the unit CC asked for my CAPID to enter our having participated. All of us had been around in the 80s as cadets, and out of reflex I almost recited my first non-SSAN ID number. We all had a little chuckle about being able to remember THAT and not other important and relevant information...
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You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,508
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #77 on: March 06, 2015, 05:31:15 PM »

I still remember my first CAPSN as a cadet from 50 years ago, but can't tell you what I had for dinner on Monday.

C-22-10171
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
ExCadetwithCOP
Newbie

Posts: 2
Unit: MER-DC-01

« Reply #78 on: March 06, 2015, 10:18:03 PM »

I joined as a cadet in 1956.  Two cadet Serial Numbers:  C83-12-57249 (C because I was a cadet, 83 because it was Colorado Wing, 12 because it was Denver Squadron 12, 57 because I joined in November of 56 and my membership was processed in 57, and a number assigned by Colorado Wing - perhaps I was the 249th cadet to join that year - have no idea.  This cadet Serial Number was reduced to C83-249 at some point during my cadet membership (it was an accident that I received the same last three numbers).  When I turned senior member, I was assigned 10057147.  This number came from National and joining members received numbers (in order), which made it somewhat easy to figure out if I joined before someone else.  I do not know if re-joining members could get their "old" serial number back.   In order for this number to "fit" into social security blocks, a leading zero was added and my number became 010057147.  I had this for years and used it with ECI enrollment courses.  I fought the change to the SSN tooth and nail until my membership was threatened, when I gave in.  My CAPSN is now 139***.  One of the reasons for the change to SSN numbers was because of ECI enrollments, which I already had circumvented because they accepted my 0100*** SN.  To this day I really resent CAP using my SSN number, posting it in travel orders, on the wall, at various region conference and national conferences that I attended via military airlift.  While I remember the first four serial numbers, I cannot get the last one into my head.  Either it is age or the idea that it won't last and I'll get another one.  I'm a 50 year member, earned my COP as a cadet and GRW in 1983.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Hysterical History  |  Topic: C/FO
 


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