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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Hysterical History  |  Topic: C/FO
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Author Topic: C/FO  (Read 19613 times)
abdsp51
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« on: June 23, 2012, 07:07:59 PM »

Anyone know when the grade system for cadets changed?  I am wondering about the addition of C/SMSgt and C/CMSgt and the deletion of C/FO and the gold pip?
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RADIOMAN015
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 07:19:14 PM »

Anyone know when the grade system for cadets changed?  I am wondering about the addition of C/SMSgt and C/CMSgt and the deletion of C/FO and the gold pip?
Well I can tell you when it didn't exist:  1965 to 1970, as a C/1Lt (and C/2Lt with Mitchell first) and a Senior member Warrant Officer (WO).
RM   
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 07:22:47 PM by RADIOMAN015 » Logged
coudano
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2012, 07:29:16 PM »

I think that happened at the same time the added the Feik and made the WBA a milestone, right?
So that should have been April 1 2003 right?

No it was not an april fools joke :)
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caphornbuckle
Seasoned Member

Posts: 258

« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2012, 07:30:23 PM »

I think it changed in roughly 2002 or 2003.

It also changed the promotions for cadets during that period.  When they installed the Feik Award and made the Wright Brothers an Achievement Award.  If I remember, those who were between Sergeant and Master Sergeant in the old system earned a free promotion to the next grade in the new system.  C/FO left at this time as well and all Mitchells earned C/2nd Lt.
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Lt Col Samuel L. Hornbuckle, CAP
jimmydeanno
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2012, 08:07:25 PM »

It happened late '99 early '00.  I earned my Mitchell in Jan '99, got promoted to C/FO, started working through the achievements, and by the time I actually earned the promotion to C/2d Lt, my peers who did no work towards C/2d Lt got promoted at the same time.  The Feik Award was added later, but the C/Sgt was removed at the same time as C/FO.
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Capt_Redfox30
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Illinois Wing
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2012, 08:16:35 PM »

When I joined in 1999 I was told to cross out the C/FO grade in the leadership book as it had just been removed and my squadron had the first C/CMSGT in the Wing, the Wing Commander came and visited personally to award it to him.  That was 1999 because I joined in August and I just got my uniform, so it was around Oct/Nov time frame. 
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Kirk Thirtyacre, Lt Col, CAP
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MinnViking08
Newbie

Posts: 3

« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2012, 10:59:46 PM »

The switch was 01 August 1999.

My Mitchell was issued on 29 July 1999 and my Unit Commander gave me the option of staying a C/FO or waiting until August 1 to send in the paperwork to go directly to C/2d Lt
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Levi Lockling
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2012, 04:19:20 AM »

The switch was 01 August 1999.

My Mitchell was issued on 29 July 1999 and my Unit Commander gave me the option of staying a C/FO or waiting until August 1 to send in the paperwork to go directly to C/2d Lt

Which one did you choose, sir?
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1stLt Levi H. Lockling
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ol'fido
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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2012, 08:55:35 AM »

I was never a c/FO. I was a c/WO. Don' remember when the switch was made. Just know I had a lot of fun as a gold pip.
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Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
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MinnViking08
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« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2012, 11:13:58 AM »

The switch was 01 August 1999.

My Mitchell was issued on 29 July 1999 and my Unit Commander gave me the option of staying a C/FO or waiting until August 1 to send in the paperwork to go directly to C/2d Lt

Which one did you choose, sir?

I opted for C/FO so I like to say that I was probably the last C/FO of CAP
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754837
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« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2012, 05:04:21 PM »

I was never a c/FO. I was a c/WO. Don' remember when the switch was made. Just know I had a lot of fun as a gold pip.

Me too but I wanted to go from c/wo to c/2lt fast because of the cool shoulder boards!  I was a c/wo in 1977 or 78...
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▀τε
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2012, 05:09:50 PM »

I was never a c/FO. I was a c/WO. Don' remember when the switch was made. Just know I had a lot of fun as a gold pip.

Me too but I wanted to go from c/wo to c/2lt fast because of the cool shoulder boards!  I was a c/wo in 1977 or 78...
I remember that. C/WO wore grade insignia on the collar of the light-blue shirt while C/2Lt and higher used shoulder boards.
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caphornbuckle
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« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2012, 05:22:31 PM »

I keep getting blocked from looking at this but I found this about the changes of the NCO grades.

I'm at work and they don't allow this type of website so it is not because of any issues that I know of.

Anyone willing to give it a try and let me know if it's what everyone is looking for?

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/44878101/Cadet-Programs-CADET-PROGRAM-MANAGEMENT

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Lt Col Samuel L. Hornbuckle, CAP
abdsp51
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« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2012, 05:24:21 PM »

Thanks guys.  I want to impart a little bit of history on the cadets of my unit.  PLenty of folks look at me funny when they see the bars especially after I tell them my membership # starts with  a 1. 

We had one of our cadets visiting from West Point and the look on his face when our C/CC mentioned that was priceless.  I have taken in and shown one of the last remaining gold pips of  mine and I plan on taking in my rack one night. 

I wasn't sure when the change happened as I let my former membership expire in 98.
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GroundHawg
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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2012, 11:06:42 AM »

I just found a set of my miniature gold pips cleaning out the garage the other day. Made me smile :)

I too am a LT with a '1' to start my CAP ID.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2012, 11:10:23 AM »

I too am a LT with a '1' to start my CAP ID.

It's not that uncommon.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2012, 06:58:55 PM »

OK, here's the deal on CAPIDs.

If you were a member before the change from SSNs to CAPIDs, at the transition you got a six digit CAPID starting with 1, based on your position in a list of members in SSAN order. These went up to about 145xxx. Then there's a gap. The new members who joined after the transition have CAPIDs starting with 15XXXX.
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Dave Bowles
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2012, 07:32:21 PM »

Proud member of the 359XXX!

Just checked and some of the newest members in our unit are 516XXX.
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a2capt
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« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2012, 07:41:57 PM »

With me sitting at 331XXX, when I saw the 145's, I thought.. "wow, that's half.. " now, the newest to be added to our unit yesterday just cracked 5170XX. Pretty soon it will be double what I was.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2012, 07:47:50 PM »

Don't forget that the first 99999 numbers weren't used. In fact, the first number used appears to be 100100.
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Dave Bowles
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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2012, 08:56:55 PM »

From what I can tell, anyone who was a member in early June 1994 was assigned a CAPID number. The lowest appears to be 100000, still in use today. It looks like they started with senior members with numbering up to 14**** and continuing with cadets to 17****, and then went sequentially starting in June 1994. I don't think there were any gaps.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2012, 09:49:49 PM »

I did some surfing around in eServices a while back, and came up with the numbers I posted.

Just checked again, and the lowest current number is 100014, and all three members in the 10001x group are in NHWG.

There are some thousand number gaps around 1492xx, 1494xx, 1495xx, 1496xx, and 1497xx. The sequence starts again at 1498xx. There is another gap at 1500xx. They seem to continue regularly after that.

Based on my membership card collection, the changeover came on 1 Jan 2001.
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Dave Bowles
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bosshawk
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2012, 10:32:52 PM »

Dave: your chronology seems about right.  I joined in 93 and when my number was changed to a CAPID, it was in the 103XXX range: I assume because my SSN begins with 191.  Can;'t remember what my CAPID was, but I can remember my Army serial number: assigned in June 1957.
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Paul M. Reed
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SarDragon
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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2012, 11:09:29 PM »

That just threw more crap in the game. Your SSAN is higher than mine, but your CAPID is lower. My most recent join date is Apr '87.
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Dave Bowles
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jimmydeanno
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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2012, 11:44:55 PM »

My CAPID starts with 229, and my SSN starts with 012.  I joined in '97 and was converted from the SSN version to a CAPID.
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MSG Mac
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« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2012, 12:00:12 AM »

Mine starts with 02 and CAP ID is 101***
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Michael P. McEleney
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SarDragon
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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2012, 12:20:20 AM »

I dunno.

I thought I had it mostly fangered out, and then I see all the outliers here.

Oh, well.
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Dave Bowles
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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2012, 01:07:35 AM »

My CAPID starts with 229, and my SSN starts with 012.  I joined in '97 and was converted from the SSN version to a CAPID.
Since you joined after 1994, your CAPID was assigned sequentially by join date and was not based on your SSN.

It looks like from 1994 to 2000, the CAPID was used internally at NHQ and not used on membership cards or membership reports.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2012, 01:20:18 AM »

My CAPID starts with 229, and my SSN starts with 012.  I joined in '97 and was converted from the SSN version to a CAPID.
Since you joined after 1994, your CAPID was assigned sequentially by join date and was not based on your SSN.

It looks like from 1994 to 2000, the CAPID was used internally at NHQ and not used on membership cards or membership reports.

What do you have from that time frame that has the CAPID?
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Dave Bowles
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« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2012, 01:30:51 AM »

My CAPID starts with 229, and my SSN starts with 012.  I joined in '97 and was converted from the SSN version to a CAPID.
Since you joined after 1994, your CAPID was assigned sequentially by join date and was not based on your SSN.

It looks like from 1994 to 2000, the CAPID was used internally at NHQ and not used on membership cards or membership reports.

What do you have from that time frame that has the CAPID?
I don't have anything from that era using the CAPID. What I have done is researched and found that for members with join dates starting in June 1994, CAPID numbers are sequential based on join date.

That is why I suppose that from 1994 to 2000, it was only used internally in the national database and not actually used on anything given to members or units.
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MinnViking08
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« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2012, 01:53:57 AM »

I joined in 1997 My SSN starts with 234 this was when we still used the CAPSN and it was our Soc Sec Number. When they changed to CAPID my CAPID starts with 230
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bosshawk
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« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2012, 02:10:45 AM »

I think that this thread has, once again, surfaced the strong impression that some of the things that CAP National Hq does do not make sense.

Continue to march.  How do we change this to a uniform thread?
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Paul M. Reed
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SarDragon
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« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2012, 02:33:35 AM »

Got it. And that set of digits started where?

Looking at the 100xxx numbers, they mostly all belong to folks from NER, with the obvious exceptions of people who have moved.
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Dave Bowles
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abdsp51
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« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2012, 11:37:39 AM »

I initially joined Nov 94 and my membership lapsed in 98 and I rejoined this year.  It's funny when i get looked at when people learn my membership # starts with a 1 most of the the folks in ky unit who have a 1 or something like that are SMs either a Maj or LtCol.
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Ned
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« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2012, 12:04:01 PM »

When I first turned to the Dark Side in 1976, I declined to provide CAP with my SSN and was assigned a CAPID that was simply my six digit cadet serial number preceded by three zeros. 

I was able to keep it that way for several years until provision of SSN became mandatory with the onset of our CPP and the old Cadet Leader cards.  (Yes, I'm a certified 'leader'.  It says so on this card!")

At some point they assigned me a CAPID, 145xxx.

I'm really getting old . . .
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BillB
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« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2012, 01:34:32 PM »

Ned
   Don't feel old, including a cadet ID, I've had five serial numbers.
 Dave since you listed yours here's my SN's

C41-320 (I don't believe there were only 319 cadets in Florida Wing before I joined)
SM  4-1-5716
010062413
SSN
116848
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 12:06:16 AM by BillB » Logged
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104
SarDragon
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« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2012, 04:53:45 PM »

Ned
   Don't feel old, including a cadet ID, I've had five serial numbers.

Now I don't feel so bad. I've only had 4.

Olde cadet # - C-22-10171
New cadet # - 519522
SSAN when I turned SM
Current # - 106xxx
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Dave Bowles
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ColonelJack
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« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2012, 05:40:09 PM »

When I first turned to the Dark Side in 1976, I declined to provide CAP with my SSN and was assigned a CAPID that was simply my six digit cadet serial number preceded by three zeros. 

I was able to keep it that way for several years until provision of SSN became mandatory with the onset of our CPP and the old Cadet Leader cards.  (Yes, I'm a certified 'leader'.  It says so on this card!")

At some point they assigned me a CAPID, 145xxx.

I'm really getting old . . .

Ned ...

You think YOU'RE getting old?  My CAPID is 115xxx.

And I was out for 12 years before rejoining ...

Jack
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Garibaldi
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Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2012, 12:05:47 AM »

When I first turned to the Dark Side in 1976, I declined to provide CAP with my SSN and was assigned a CAPID that was simply my six digit cadet serial number preceded by three zeros. 

I was able to keep it that way for several years until provision of SSN became mandatory with the onset of our CPP and the old Cadet Leader cards.  (Yes, I'm a certified 'leader'.  It says so on this card!")

At some point they assigned me a CAPID, 145xxx.

I'm really getting old . . .

Ned ...

You think YOU'RE getting old?  My CAPID is 115xxx.

And I was out for 12 years before rejoining ...

Jack

I am one of the only few that actually has a CAPID whose first 3 numbers match our unit number: 115. People still comment on it when they see it. My OLD CAPID from 1981 started with 796.
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You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
BuckeyeDEJ
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« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2012, 01:00:22 AM »

Huh. My cadet number, issued in 1984, was 000914475. Then, as I was gearing up to go to college, I had to get a Social Security number, so I converted my CAPSN to that number.

And then my CAPID came along -- starting with 113. It has nothing but 1s and 3s in it, which is funny, since my lucky number is 13.

My SSN has nothing to do with it, as it starts with 234. (Guess the state in which it was issued.)

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CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group and wing PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member, at region level now
REAL LIFE: Working journalist in SPG, DTW (News), SRQ, PIT (Trib), 2D1, WVI, W22; editor, desk chief, designer, photog, columnist, reporter, graphics guy, visual editor, but not all at once. Now in marketing.
cap235629
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« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2012, 02:27:19 AM »

Huh. My cadet number, issued in 1984, was 000914475. Then, as I was gearing up to go to college, I had to get a Social Security number, so I converted my CAPSN to that number.

And then my CAPID came along -- starting with 113. It has nothing but 1s and 3s in it, which is funny, since my lucky number is 13.

My SSN has nothing to do with it, as it starts with 234. (Guess the state in which it was issued.)

West Virginia....
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Bill Hobbs, Major, CAP
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BuckeyeDEJ
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« Reply #41 on: December 25, 2012, 10:26:16 PM »

Huh. My cadet number, issued in 1984, was 000914475. Then, as I was gearing up to go to college, I had to get a Social Security number, so I converted my CAPSN to that number.

And then my CAPID came along -- starting with 113. It has nothing but 1s and 3s in it, which is funny, since my lucky number is 13.

My SSN has nothing to do with it, as it starts with 234. (Guess the state in which it was issued.)

West Virginia....

We have a winner. Native Ohioan, just happened to be in West Virginia at the time.
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CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group and wing PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member, at region level now
REAL LIFE: Working journalist in SPG, DTW (News), SRQ, PIT (Trib), 2D1, WVI, W22; editor, desk chief, designer, photog, columnist, reporter, graphics guy, visual editor, but not all at once. Now in marketing.
N7MOG
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« Reply #42 on: December 28, 2012, 01:56:11 PM »

Well, I must have missed out.  I was a cadet with a 656xxx CAPSN in 1968-1973.  I transitioned to SM when I joined the USMC, but don't remember when my original SN went away. Nat'l has no record "that far back".  I have my Mitchell certificate, but they weren't numbered.  Now I have 341xxx.
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Bill Collister
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The original content of this post is Copyright (c) 2014 by William Collister.  The right to reproduce the content of this post within CAP-Talk only for the purposes of providing a quoted reply, by CAP-Talk users only, is specifically granted. All other rights, including "Fair Use," are specifically reserved.
SarDragon
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« Reply #43 on: December 28, 2012, 05:29:48 PM »

Well, I must have missed out.  I was a cadet with a 656xxx CAPSN in 1968-1973.  I transitioned to SM when I joined the USMC, but don't remember when my original SN went away. Nat'l has no record "that far back".  I have my Mitchell certificate, but they weren't numbered.  Now I have 341xxx.

You didn't miss out on anything. Back then, cadet CAPSNs were from a different set of numbers than the SMs. When you turned SM, you got a different CAPSN - your SSAN.
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Dave Bowles
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« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2013, 07:32:57 PM »

101XXX
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Michael P. McEleney
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« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2013, 09:51:13 PM »

I joined in May of 1960.  my Cadet SN was C-33-3439.
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Jaison009
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« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2013, 03:22:44 PM »

1999ish. I earned my Mitchell late 1998 and was a C/FO.
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TexasCadet
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« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2013, 04:25:50 PM »

I know I'm bumping this thread, but I have a question. What did a C/FO do? Obviously, C/NCOs were flight sergeants and the like, and C/officers did officer stuff, but I can't think of what a C/FO might have done.
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MIKE
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« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2013, 04:34:30 PM »

Functionally they were no different than a C/2d Lt.  The Leadership 2000 text might have hinted at the grade as an officer in training.  Also note that at the time the C/NCO grades ended at C/MSgt with the Doolittle and Goddard achievements.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 04:39:22 PM by MIKE » Logged
Mike Johnston
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« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2013, 08:44:01 PM »

106XXX
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ol'fido
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« Reply #50 on: December 01, 2013, 08:58:36 PM »

Perhaps we should start the Order of the Gold Pip. Less exclusive than the Spaatz Association but more fun. Something like Mensa vs. the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes.
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Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
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SarDragon
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« Reply #51 on: December 01, 2013, 09:04:26 PM »

Perhaps we should start the Order of the Gold Pip. Less exclusive than the Spaatz Association but more fun. Something like Mensa vs. the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes.

I resemble that remark.  ;)

106XXX

1069xx
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Dave Bowles
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Jaison009
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« Reply #52 on: December 01, 2013, 09:30:27 PM »

Typically the golden pip was when we became flight commanders. As Mike noted we did not have past C/MSgt. You typically were flight commander until C/1LT and then you started working on staff. I became XO as a C/1LT, Cadet Commander as C/Capt, rotated out to Dept. Cadet Commander as C/Maj-C/LTCol to allow other officers to gain experience as XO and CC, attend additional encampments as staff, focus on Eaker and Spaatz, and then I moved to a smaller squadron in MO that I helped found where I was Cadet Commander again.

I know I'm bumping this thread, but I have a question. What did a C/FO do? Obviously, C/NCOs were flight sergeants and the like, and C/officers did officer stuff, but I can't think of what a C/FO might have done.
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ol'fido
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« Reply #53 on: December 01, 2013, 10:47:04 PM »

Perhaps we should start the Order of the Gold Pip. Less exclusive than the Spaatz Association but more fun. Something like Mensa vs. the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes.

I resemble that remark.  ;)

106XXX

1069xx
For some reason, I picture that scene from the Great Santini where the Marines(Gold Pippers) bust into the Navy(Spaatz Assoc.) Dance and Santini uses the clam chowder to pretend to throw up.

The Great Santini - the soup incident
« Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 10:50:53 PM by ol'fido » Logged
Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006
BuckeyeDEJ
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« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2014, 10:31:49 PM »

Remember that the grade of cadet warrant officer/cadet flight officer was commensurate with the Gen. Billy Mitchell Award. Pretty much whatever goes with the Mitchell starts now with the grade of cadet second lieutenant. A cadet flight officer was still a cadet officer, just with a gold moonpie.
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CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group and wing PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member, at region level now
REAL LIFE: Working journalist in SPG, DTW (News), SRQ, PIT (Trib), 2D1, WVI, W22; editor, desk chief, designer, photog, columnist, reporter, graphics guy, visual editor, but not all at once. Now in marketing.
Grumpy
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« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2014, 12:30:15 AM »

With me sitting at 331XXX, when I saw the 145's, I thought.. "wow, that's half.. " now, the newest to be added to our unit yesterday just cracked 5170XX. Pretty soon it will be double what I was.

How about C-9114951?

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PHall
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« Reply #56 on: November 24, 2014, 12:35:14 AM »

With me sitting at 331XXX, when I saw the 145's, I thought.. "wow, that's half.. " now, the newest to be added to our unit yesterday just cracked 5170XX. Pretty soon it will be double what I was.

How about C-9114951?


Or 691508?
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LATORRECA
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« Reply #57 on: November 24, 2014, 01:06:44 AM »

Functionally they were no different than a C/2d Lt.  The Leadership 2000 text might have hinted at the grade as an officer in training.  Also note that at the time the C/NCO grades ended at C/MSgt with the Doolittle and Goddard achievements.

I was a c/FO back when when it was the transition of the program before leadership 2000. It was no difference, just when we got in trouble, It was more political. I wonder, if I still have any of my gold pins and my old IDs around my house in PR. I like to know my old members ID number.

Those were the days between 1993-97.
 
What was explained to me was that C/FO was a transitional rank from were you learn to be a officer and then you where full officer after couple of test. A lot of people got stock there due to the SDA's.
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catrulz
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« Reply #58 on: November 24, 2014, 12:01:39 PM »

This has probably been answered, but In 1999 the C/SMSGT and C/CMSGT grades were added.   At that time cadets had a choice to go directly to Mitchell from C/MSGT or they could opt to promote through the two extra grades.  We had two cadets in the same grade that took opposing courses.  They both ended up as Earhart C/Capt. 

I was a cadet back in 1977-79 and seemed like it was C/WO back then.  But that could be poor memory.
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THRAWN
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« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2014, 12:26:50 PM »

Always reminded me of the "probationary, supernumerary and temporary third lieutenant". You were kind of an officer, but still had the latitude to royally foul up.
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Strup
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Grumpy
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« Reply #60 on: November 24, 2014, 01:04:34 PM »

With me sitting at 331XXX, when I saw the 145's, I thought.. "wow, that's half.. " now, the newest to be added to our unit yesterday just cracked 5170XX. Pretty soon it will be double what I was.

How about C-9114951?

Wow Phil, if that was your cadet ID, you're older than I am.

Or 691508?
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Grumpy
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« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2014, 01:16:15 PM »

I joined in May of 1960.  my Cadet SN was C-33-3439.

I joined in 1959, a year before you.  I wonder how they were breaking down the cadet ID numbers.  Yours is smaller than mine and broken up. Mine wasn't broken up.
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Grumpy
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« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2014, 01:36:27 PM »

Typically the golden pip was when we became flight commanders. As Mike noted we did not have past C/MSgt. You typically were flight commander until C/1LT and then you started working on staff. I became XO as a C/1LT, Cadet Commander as C/Capt, rotated out to Dept. Cadet Commander as C/Maj-C/LTCol to allow other officers to gain experience as XO and CC, attend additional encampments as staff, focus on Eaker and Spaatz, and then I moved to a smaller squadron in MO that I helped found where I was Cadet Commander again.

I know I'm bumping this thread, but I have a question. What did a C/FO do? Obviously, C/NCOs were flight sergeants and the like, and C/officers did officer stuff, but I can't think of what a C/FO might have done.

What would you think if they changed the insignia of rank for c/2nd Lt and Major to the color gold. It wouldn't change any of the training or the rank.  It would simply have the cadet rank insignia more closely resemble the military and senior member ranks. "They" already have gold pips and diamonds available for cadets.

Just wondering.  I'll go back to sleep now.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2014, 01:39:55 PM »

I would think VG's revenue missed a quarterly mark.
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Storm Chaser
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« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2014, 01:53:57 PM »


Typically the golden pip was when we became flight commanders. As Mike noted we did not have past C/MSgt. You typically were flight commander until C/1LT and then you started working on staff. I became XO as a C/1LT, Cadet Commander as C/Capt, rotated out to Dept. Cadet Commander as C/Maj-C/LTCol to allow other officers to gain experience as XO and CC, attend additional encampments as staff, focus on Eaker and Spaatz, and then I moved to a smaller squadron in MO that I helped found where I was Cadet Commander again.

I know I'm bumping this thread, but I have a question. What did a C/FO do? Obviously, C/NCOs were flight sergeants and the like, and C/officers did officer stuff, but I can't think of what a C/FO might have done.

What would you think if they changed the insignia of rank for c/2nd Lt and Major to the color gold. It wouldn't change any of the training or the rank.  It would simply have the cadet rank insignia more closely resemble the military and senior member ranks. "They" already have gold pips and diamonds available for cadets.

Just wondering.  I'll go back to sleep now.

That's not necessary. The reason the 2d Lt and Maj insignias are gold is to differentiate them with the 1st Lt and Lt Col insignias, which are silver. That's a not an issue with our cadet insignias as they're all different.
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Grumpy
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« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2014, 02:37:26 PM »

I know reason for the silver and gold. I was just thinking along the lines of esthetics and to more closely resemble the military.  No big thing.
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PHall
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« Reply #66 on: November 24, 2014, 10:11:58 PM »

With me sitting at 331XXX, when I saw the 145's, I thought.. "wow, that's half.. " now, the newest to be added to our unit yesterday just cracked 5170XX. Pretty soon it will be double what I was.

How about C-9114951?

Wow Phil, if that was your cadet ID, you're older than I am.

Or 691508?

Yep, that's my olde cadet ID. Issued in Dec 1969!
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Jaison009
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« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2014, 10:35:28 PM »

While there are some who might agree, I think this would be even more confusing to folks. All Army and Marine JROTC programs use the same rank structure for their officers and it is a historical tie to our history as Army Air Corps. Since JROTC came into effect in 1916, my guess is that we built our ranks off of them and available insignia. I have heard older former cadet members recall when their ranks were shiny metal (which if true to me would indicate that JROTC/ROTC insignia was most likely used in the early days of the program. Gold diamonds were also discussed for a Cadet/Brig Gen role). I think historically it would be a disservice to all of the C/WO, C/FO, and those who for a brief moment were awarded gold diamonds.

Typically the golden pip was when we became flight commanders. As Mike noted we did not have past C/MSgt. You typically were flight commander until C/1LT and then you started working on staff. I became XO as a C/1LT, Cadet Commander as C/Capt, rotated out to Dept. Cadet Commander as C/Maj-C/LTCol to allow other officers to gain experience as XO and CC, attend additional encampments as staff, focus on Eaker and Spaatz, and then I moved to a smaller squadron in MO that I helped found where I was Cadet Commander again.

I know I'm bumping this thread, but I have a question. What did a C/FO do? Obviously, C/NCOs were flight sergeants and the like, and C/officers did officer stuff, but I can't think of what a C/FO might have done.

What would you think if they changed the insignia of rank for c/2nd Lt and Major to the color gold. It wouldn't change any of the training or the rank.  It would simply have the cadet rank insignia more closely resemble the military and senior member ranks. "They" already have gold pips and diamonds available for cadets.

Just wondering.  I'll go back to sleep now.
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ColonelJack
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« Reply #68 on: November 25, 2014, 09:02:44 AM »

While there are some who might agree, I think this would be even more confusing to folks. All Army and Marine JROTC programs use the same rank structure for their officers and it is a historical tie to our history as Army Air Corps. Since JROTC came into effect in 1916, my guess is that we built our ranks off of them and available insignia. I have heard older former cadet members recall when their ranks were shiny metal (which if true to me would indicate that JROTC/ROTC insignia was most likely used in the early days of the program. Gold diamonds were also discussed for a Cadet/Brig Gen role). I think historically it would be a disservice to all of the C/WO, C/FO, and those who for a brief moment were awarded gold diamonds.

The Chicago Public Schools' JROTC program has two cadets who hold the grade of Cadet Brigadier General ... they use four diamonds for it.  (Even if it's an AFJROTC cadet.  Should it be a Navy JROTC cadet, they use the same insignia but call it Cadet Rear Admiral.)

Jack
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Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
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« Reply #69 on: November 26, 2014, 06:09:41 PM »

I was a cadet back in 1977-79 and seemed like it was C/WO back then.  But that could be poor memory.

And, you could not wear the shoulder boards until reaching 2LT. Probably was a factor in the "you're not really an officer yet" mentality.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #70 on: November 26, 2014, 06:13:53 PM »

I was a cadet back in 1977-79 and seemed like it was C/WO back then.  But that could be poor memory.

And, you could not wear the shoulder boards until reaching 2LT. Probably was a factor in the "you're not really an officer yet" mentality.

BTDT. Disappointing. I was among the first C/WOs in NJWG.

It did eventually change to where C/WOs could wear the shoulder boards.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
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LSThiker
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« Reply #71 on: November 26, 2014, 07:03:21 PM »

I was a cadet back in 1977-79 and seemed like it was C/WO back then.  But that could be poor memory.

Cadet Warrant Officer was created in 1968.  It was changed from C/WO to Cadet Flight Officer in 1984.  In 1998, the C/FO was removed. 
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #72 on: March 05, 2015, 05:33:02 AM »

Remember that the grade of cadet warrant officer/cadet flight officer was commensurate with the Gen. Billy Mitchell Award. Pretty much whatever goes with the Mitchell starts now with the grade of cadet second lieutenant. A cadet flight officer was still a cadet officer, just with a gold moonpie.

Bumping this to say "Not always."

Between 1965 and 1968, Mitchell Award earned promotion to.....Cadet Master Sergeant. In order to make Cadet 2nd Lieutenant, the cadet had to complete the first achievement of Phase III.

In practice, that rarely happened. In the time between submitting for the Mitchell and actually receiving it, most cadets ending Phase II charged right in and completed the first Phase III achievement. The net result looked like the cadet received the Mitchell and became a cadet officer all at the same time. But I knew 2-3 guys who dragged their feet, got the Mitchell and 6 stripes, then got Cadet 2nd Lieutenant a few weeks later.


This all changed in 1968. Cadet Warrant Officer came about specifically to tie Mitchell to cadet officer.
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Brad
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« Reply #73 on: March 05, 2015, 07:26:03 AM »

A good look-through of the Winter Command Council minutes shows that there is discussion to eliminate Flight Officer ranks for those in that gray area before the big gray area ;)
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Brad Lee
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AirAux
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« Reply #74 on: March 05, 2015, 10:27:12 AM »

Strange, I joined this time in 9/1979, my ID is 1250..  My wife joined in 4/1989 and her ID is 1255..  Our last names are different so that shouldn't have had anything to do with it.  I was a senior member for a year in Kansas in 1969 or 70.  I was a cadet in Wisconsin for a couple of years in 62-64.  House burned down after that and I have no idea as to what my serial number was.  I went to encampment as a cadet at Chanute AFB.  You wouldn't believe the number of different uniforms that I have worn in CAP, starting with the lovely Khaki's. 
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SarDragon
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« Reply #75 on: March 05, 2015, 10:18:58 PM »

Regarding CAPIDs, here's just about everything you might want to know:

OK, here's one older thread discussing CAPIDs. Go down to post #16, and start reading. Sorry, circular reference. It's the thread we're in now. Post #16 is where the good stuff starts.

Another.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2015, 10:35:24 PM by SarDragon » Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Garibaldi
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Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« Reply #76 on: March 06, 2015, 07:36:35 AM »

Funny story. At our meeting we were debriefing on the new cadet protection policy, and the unit CC asked for my CAPID to enter our having participated. All of us had been around in the 80s as cadets, and out of reflex I almost recited my first non-SSAN ID number. We all had a little chuckle about being able to remember THAT and not other important and relevant information...
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You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
SarDragon
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« Reply #77 on: March 06, 2015, 05:31:15 PM »

I still remember my first CAPSN as a cadet from 50 years ago, but can't tell you what I had for dinner on Monday.

C-22-10171
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Dave Bowles
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ExCadetwithCOP
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« Reply #78 on: March 06, 2015, 10:18:03 PM »

I joined as a cadet in 1956.  Two cadet Serial Numbers:  C83-12-57249 (C because I was a cadet, 83 because it was Colorado Wing, 12 because it was Denver Squadron 12, 57 because I joined in November of 56 and my membership was processed in 57, and a number assigned by Colorado Wing - perhaps I was the 249th cadet to join that year - have no idea.  This cadet Serial Number was reduced to C83-249 at some point during my cadet membership (it was an accident that I received the same last three numbers).  When I turned senior member, I was assigned 10057147.  This number came from National and joining members received numbers (in order), which made it somewhat easy to figure out if I joined before someone else.  I do not know if re-joining members could get their "old" serial number back.   In order for this number to "fit" into social security blocks, a leading zero was added and my number became 010057147.  I had this for years and used it with ECI enrollment courses.  I fought the change to the SSN tooth and nail until my membership was threatened, when I gave in.  My CAPSN is now 139***.  One of the reasons for the change to SSN numbers was because of ECI enrollments, which I already had circumvented because they accepted my 0100*** SN.  To this day I really resent CAP using my SSN number, posting it in travel orders, on the wall, at various region conference and national conferences that I attended via military airlift.  While I remember the first four serial numbers, I cannot get the last one into my head.  Either it is age or the idea that it won't last and I'll get another one.  I'm a 50 year member, earned my COP as a cadet and GRW in 1983.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Hysterical History  |  Topic: C/FO
 


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