Purchasing FRS (GMRS) Portable Radios Squadron Non ES Communications Support

We are looking into purchasing some Family Radio Service (FRS) portable radios (12 each) for squadron non ES activities.   The issue we are encountering is that all of the new portables on the market are actually FRS/GMRS combo portable radios.

I know we can utilize FRS radios within the limits imposed by CAPR 100-1, the problem is IF one buy what is currently available on the market, it's going to be a combo radio.     CAPR 100-1 prohibits operating on the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) frequencies.   Utilizing these GMRS frequencies (channels 15 to 22 in the radios) also require an FCC license.  The FCC may be considering in the future eliminating individual license requirements for GMRS units below 10 watts.  (Such as FRS which is licensed by "rule").

So could we still buy those FRS/GMRS portable radios and just not use the units on the GMRS frequencies

Are FRS portable radio, required to go on the formal radio communications inventory system, even if the unit cost is below $25 each

RM 
 
     

Your best source for the answers to these questions is YOUR wing DC.

We are looking into purchasing some Family Radio Service (FRS) portable radios (12 each) for squadron non ES activities.   The issue we are encountering is that all of the new portables on the market are actually FRS/GMRS combo portable radios.

I know we can utilize FRS radios within the limits imposed by CAPR 100-1, the problem is IF one buy what is currently available on the market, it's going to be a combo radio.     CAPR 100-1 prohibits operating on the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) frequencies.   Utilizing these GMRS frequencies (channels 15 to 22 in the radios) also require an FCC license.  The FCC may be considering in the future eliminating individual license requirements for GMRS units below 10 watts.  (Such as FRS which is licensed by "rule").

So could we still buy those FRS/GMRS portable radios and just not use the units on the GMRS frequencies

Are FRS portable radio, required to go on the formal radio communications inventory system, even if the unit cost is below $25 each

RM     

The fact that they are capable of running GMRS doesn't preclude you buying them, just make sure in training that everyone knows the restriction against using that frequency.

CAPR 100-2 chapter 3-1 says that all non-disposable communciations equipment must be tracked, there is no lower dollar amount.

You can of course operate operate the FRS portion of the radio only, and for CAP, even if you have a GMRS license, its a no-go for general  operations. Its also a good idea to have a combo FRS/GMRS radio, because of the prevalence of these radios by hikers, etc., They can come in handy in active searches for lost hikers, etc. Also, you can operate any radio you want in any manner you want, in a situation involving imminent loss of life or serious hazards to aircraft of vessels.

Major Lord

Also, you can operate any radio you want in any manner you want, in a situation involving imminent loss of life or serious hazards to aircraft of vessels.

Major Lord

This does NOT mean you can use any radio however you want in training for said situations.

Also, you can operate any radio you want in any manner you want, in a situation involving imminent loss of life or serious hazards to aircraft of vessels.

Major Lord

This does NOT mean you can use any radio however you want in training for said situations.

I'll try to use simpler words next time so you will understand.

Major Lord

This does NOT mean you can use any radio however you want in training for said situations.

No, of course not.  And that is not what was said.

This does NOT mean you can use any radio however you want in training for said situations.

No, of course not.  And that is not what was said.

Of course not. I didn't say he did. The logic I have heard from some members is "how can we use any radio system in an emergency if we don't train on them." They use that "justification" to push for CAP routinely using ham radios, public safety channels (VTAC, VFIRE, Etc), FRS, etc, for all CAP activities. I have had to explain to many members why we don't have ham radio frequencies programmed into CAP owned radios even though the radios are capable of operating on those frequencies. Some under the rules, others try to play the "in an emergency..." card to justify putting ham frequencies in CAP owned radios.

You have to be very careful about operating a FRS/GMRS radio on the FRS channels. It may or may not require a GMRS license.

The following is from the FCC Family Radio Service (FRS) bolding added.

General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) and Family Radio Service (FRS) Dual Devices

Some manufacturers have received approval to market devices that are certified for use in both the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) and the Family Radio Service (FRS). Other manufacturers have received approval of their devices under the GMRS rules, but market them as FRS/GMRS devices on the basis that:
 •Some channels are authorized to both services, or
 •A user of the device may communicate with stations in the other service.
 
Devices marketed as "FRS/GMRS" or "dual-service devices" are available from many manufacturers and many retail or discount stores. The manual that comes with the device, or the label placed on it by the manufacturer, should indicate the service the device is certified for. If you cannot determine what service the device may be used in, contact the manufacturer. If you operate a device that has been approved exclusively under the rules that apply to FRS, you are not required to have a license.  FRS devices have a maximum power of ½ watt (500 milliwatt) effective radiated power and integral (non-detachable) antennas. If you operate a device under the rules that apply to GMRS, you must have a GMRS license. GMRS devices generally transmit at higher power levels (1 to 5 watts is typical) and may have detachable antennas.
 
If you operate a radio that has been approved for both FRS and GMRS, and if you limit your operations to the FRS channels with a maximum power of ½ watt effective radiated power, you are not required to have a license. (Note that some dual-service radios transmit with higher power on FRS channels 1 through 7; these radios can be used without a license only on FRS channels 8 through 14.)
Bureaus & Offices:

Before spending money I would wait for the new version of CAPR 100-1.  The new version is expected soon.  Then you can discuss with your DC.

The draft 100-1 prohibits the use of GMRS radios (emphasis added).  With any luck the final version will prohibit the use of GMRS "frequencies" instead of "radios."  Although, if I remember correctly, frequencies shared between the 2 services are allowed to operate at higher power in GMRS radios.  If true that could explain restricting the radios from CAP use.  Might seem nitpicky, but thems the rules...or the draft rules. 

Interestingly, even though FRS is licensed by rule, CAP has extended the BCUT (soon to be ICUT) requirement to CAP use of FRS.

Before spending money I would wait for the new version of CAPR 100-1.  The new version is expected soon. 

I'm just updating my calendar...

Will that be before or after the iCut?

My money ($100,000 in Monopoly currency) is on concurrent release. As for a specific date, let's guess 1 September 2012.

Before spending money I would wait for the new version of CAPR 100-1.  The new version is expected soon. 

I'm just updating my calendar...

Will that be before or after the iCut?

The latest estimate from NHQ puts 100-1 release at mid-July with fingers crossed.  SarDragon is probably pretty close with 1 SEP 2012.

ICUT...I'll have to see it before believing.  Even then I will require more proof.   

Its on the "to-do" list righter after updating the Uniform Manual, and removing the thousands of temporary- permanent "interim" change letters we like to pretend are valid.  ( I for one will be sad to see the CAP Wolf Eradication Program authorization program redacted- if we kept it, we could recruit Sara Palin!)

Major Lord

We are looking into purchasing some Family Radio Service (FRS) portable radios (12 each) for squadron non ES activities.   The issue we are encountering is that all of the new portables on the market are actually FRS/GMRS combo portable radios.

I know we can utilize FRS radios within the limits imposed by CAPR 100-1, the problem is IF one buy what is currently available on the market, it's going to be a combo radio.     CAPR 100-1 prohibits operating on the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) frequencies.   Utilizing these GMRS frequencies (channels 15 to 22 in the radios) also require an FCC license.  The FCC may be considering in the future eliminating individual license requirements for GMRS units below 10 watts.  (Such as FRS which is licensed by "rule").

So could we still buy those FRS/GMRS portable radios and just not use the units on the GMRS frequencies

Are FRS portable radio, required to go on the formal radio communications inventory system, even if the unit cost is below $25 each

RM 
 
     

What do you mean that the only portable radios are duel FRS/GMRS radios?  You can get FRS only radios for cheap at Wally World or any sports store.

We are looking into purchasing some Family Radio Service (FRS) portable radios (12 each) for squadron non ES activities.   The issue we are encountering is that all of the new portables on the market are actually FRS/GMRS combo portable radios.

I know we can utilize FRS radios within the limits imposed by CAPR 100-1, the problem is IF one buy what is currently available on the market, it's going to be a combo radio.     CAPR 100-1 prohibits operating on the General Mobile Radio Service (GMRS) frequencies.   Utilizing these GMRS frequencies (channels 15 to 22 in the radios) also require an FCC license.  The FCC may be considering in the future eliminating individual license requirements for GMRS units below 10 watts.  (Such as FRS which is licensed by "rule").

So could we still buy those FRS/GMRS portable radios and just not use the units on the GMRS frequencies

Are FRS portable radio, required to go on the formal radio communications inventory system, even if the unit cost is below $25 each

RM 
 
     

What do you mean that the only portable radios are duel FRS/GMRS radios?  You can get FRS only radios for cheap at Wally World or any sports store.

Walmart has all combo FRS/GMRS radios
see:  http://www.walmart.com/cp/2-Way-Radios/164120  That's what the 22 channels are

FRS/GMRS frequencies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Mobile_Radio_Service

Haven't seen a 14 channel FRS Radio for quite some time.  The marketing ploy to sell this product in its' marketing maturity cycle has been comm ranges of  +20 miles  and total number of channels to communicate on
RM