Ranger tab

[arajca]

So?

Again, what's the problem with elitism (in moderation)?

The qualifier you added is the issue. Elitism "in moderation" is not a problem, however, most HMRS rangers I've had the misfortune to meet fail to understand what "in moderation" means.

I have seen HMRS rangers wearing two and three tabs before they were authorized, and even afterward when only ONE tab is authorized. No moderation there.

[jimmydeanno]

IACE, COS, and CLA are probably our top 3 most "elite" activities that we hold.  There's real selection processes, requirements, etc that have to be met to attend.

However, I haven't ever met someone who's gone on any of those three activities coming back demanding new uniform accessories, showing off how hard-kewl they are now, or calling themselves something different.

"Yeah man, I'm a Civic Leader 1st Class."

The beret things is odd to me as well.  Why do we name the activity after the headgear, and why do the graduates call themselves "berets?" 

"Yep, I'm a service cap."

Maybe people have heartburn about it because the less than elite folks are calling themselves elite and making the rest of us look like toolbags.

[FlyTiger77]

...elite folks are calling themselves elite...

If you have to tell people that you are elite, then you are doing it wrong.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

If you have to tell people that you are elite, then you are doing it wrong.

Nice one!

Kind of like the old question...how do you know if you're in a roomful of fighter pilots?

A: They'll tell you.

[lordmonar]

So?

Again, what's the problem with elitism (in moderation)?

The qualifier you added is the issue. Elitism "in moderation" is not a problem, however, most HMRS rangers I've had the misfortune to meet fail to understand what "in moderation" means.

I have seen HMRS rangers wearing two and three tabs before they were authorized, and even afterward when only ONE tab is authorized. No moderation there.

So.....it is a "teaching moment" for moderation.....but the source issue is not the title of "ranger".   That's all I am saying.  I have had problems with people comming back from NESA, NBB, HGA and even encampment.  You just have to set the standard for your squadron and move on.  Attacking the entire "ranger" community for the what is probably one or two bad apples only creates and reinforces the us vs them attitude.

[sarmed1]

I only challenge CAP rangers.  The others are legit........

Just wondering:  what do you challenge them on? Like a boy scout thing: "...ah I see you have a knife,  let me see you tote-m-chit card...."

or the validity of a CAP recognized program and the titles that go with the achievements it awards.... including the wearing of a patch for the uniform that the National commander (and the National Board for that matter) authorized?

mk

The reason that people come down so hard on self-designated "rangers" is due to to the elitism that such titles tend to produce. ....

I too am not interested in re-hashing the age old debate on the program or its elitests traps etc etc etc; in the big picture of things its an accomplishment that particpants are proud of, compared to some others out there (in or out of CAP) nothing too too special. 
My point was exactly what is it that the poster "challenges them on" especially over the "other" self identified "ranger types".  I could stop by the BX or your mail order web site of choice and deck myself out pretty good as an US Army ranger.....watch a few movies, read a few books and pass my self off to the average CAP person as a "Ranger" but because I am a self proclaimed  Army "Ranger"  I dont get challenged?  I would honestly be more inclined to believe the average cadet that they are a "Ranger" over anyone else claiming a "ranger" status of some kind..... its at least believable.

But maybe I am missing the point on his type of "challenge"

[lordmonar]

...elite folks are calling themselves elite...

If you have to tell people that you are elite, then you are doing it wrong.

So...what rank do you were on your uniforms?  Is that not telling the world that you are "elite"?
We all have out little ways of telling the world that we are better then the rest.

Now don't get me wrong.....I don't really like the Ranger Bling....I think we already have ways of showing those accomplishments, we don't need more......but that's not my point. 

My point is that we are dividing oursleves into the haves and have nots.   We attack the haves as being posers, wannabees, loosers, etc......and that IMHO not the way to go about it.  We need to attack them by standing up to the STANDARDS and enforceing them, educating the violators why it is important to maintain the published standards and not letting "them" get away with it.

We start at the unit level and at the NHQ level.
NHQ needs to fix 39-1 and it needs to police its own ranks and down to the Wing Commander level.
At our level we simply enforce the standards.
Our squadron commanders need to presure their peers to enforce the standards.
Our wing commanders need to back that up across the board and pressure their peers to maintain the standards.

Elitism is NOT a bad word........if use properly it can enhance our mission effectiveness.  When ever it gets in the way....that's when we need to stomp on it and correct it.  But attacking the "name" is just silly.

[sarmed1]

So?

Again, what's the problem with elitism (in moderation)?

...
I have seen HMRS rangers wearing two and three tabs before they were authorized,.....

Just out of curiosity, what was the 3rd tab.... there were only 2 "authorized" types of tabs Ranger and Medic (unless you are counting the "STAFF" rocker worn as part of the school patch)  There was a set of "wings" that were at one time worn by members who completed the school back when it was at Westover AFB (and maybe awarded for a few years after the move to the current location) but they went away shortly after the switch to BDU's and either way there arent than many of the folks from that era left in the program

mk

[FlyTiger77]

...elite folks are calling themselves elite...

If you have to tell people that you are elite, then you are doing it wrong.

So...what rank do you wear on your uniforms?  Is that not telling the world that you are "elite"?

You missed my point.

My comment was directed at people who feel the need to toot their own horn.

[arajca]

So?

Again, what's the problem with elitism (in moderation)?

...
I have seen HMRS rangers wearing two and three tabs before they were authorized,.....

Just out of curiosity, what was the 3rd tab.... there were only 2 "authorized" types of tabs Ranger and Medic (unless you are counting the "STAFF" rocker worn as part of the school patch)  There was a set of "wings" that were at one time worn by members who completed the school back when it was at Westover AFB (and maybe awarded for a few years after the move to the current location) but they went away shortly after the switch to BDU's and either way there arent than many of the folks from that era left in the program

mk

IIRC, Medic, Adv Ranger, Ranger.

[lordmonar]

So?

Again, what's the problem with elitism (in moderation)?

...
I have seen HMRS rangers wearing two and three tabs before they were authorized,.....

Just out of curiosity, what was the 3rd tab.... there were only 2 "authorized" types of tabs Ranger and Medic (unless you are counting the "STAFF" rocker worn as part of the school patch)  There was a set of "wings" that were at one time worn by members who completed the school back when it was at Westover AFB (and maybe awarded for a few years after the move to the current location) but they went away shortly after the switch to BDU's and either way there arent than many of the folks from that era left in the program

mk

IIRC, Medic, Adv Ranger, Ranger.

Ranger 3rd, Ranger 2nd, Ranger 1st, Adv Ranger, Expert Ranger, Medic, Senior Medic, Advanced Medic, Instructor, and staff rocker according to their HAWK BX order form.

[keystone102]

You replace the Ranger 3rd Class with 2nd when earned, replace 2nd with 1st etc. You don't wear them all at once. That is like waring your captain's bars and major oak leafs together.

[lordmonar]

You replace the Ranger 3rd Class with 2nd when earned, replace 2nd with 1st etc. You don't wear them all at once. That is like waring your captain's bars and major oak leafs together.

Yes I know.....I thought the question was what type of ranger tabs were available.

[sarmed1]

You replace the Ranger 3rd Class with 2nd when earned, replace 2nd with 1st etc. You don't wear them all at once. That is like waring your captain's bars and major oak leafs together.

more like GTM badge and GTL badge since you qualified for both......

.....was one sewn somewhere stupid.... like front of his patrol cap army style?......

mk

[DWilkins]

Since I don't have the patience to wade through all the typical non-related responses, this may be a duplicate post.  Here is the answer for the original question....after 6 years of waiting.
12 March 2012
MEMORANDUM FOR ALL CAP UNIT COMMANDERS
FROM: CC
SUBJECT: INTERIM CHANGE LETTER - Changes to CAPM 39-1, CAP Uniform Manual

...k. Hawk Mountain Ranger tabs. One Ranger tab earned at the Hawk Mountain activity
may be worn centered immediately above the Civil Air Patrol tape on the BDU uniform.

[Critical AOA]

Want to wear a ranger tab? Join the Army and go to Ranger School.  Otherwise, drop the idea.

[cpyahoo]

Huh.  Looks like everyone is still beating this dead horse.  CAP can't get funding or members, yet we're arguing about over a patch.

Good job, everyone!

[Eclipse]

Huh.  Looks like everyone is still beating this dead horse.  CAP can't get funding or members, yet we're arguing about over a patch.

Who said we can't get funding and members? Last I checked there's no issue with funding (which isn't being shared by the entire Federal Government),
and, as usual, membership is pretty much status quo.

Have you considered that the inability to define a simple, consistent uniform, and all the background noise that causes, may actually be a factor
in the issue you assert?

[cpyahoo]

Wow.  More angst and debate over hats and patches.  [sarc]

How about something productive like...

Why doesn't the USAF provide us more funding to equip or people to do THEIR missions?  Or...

Why wasn't CAP standing in line with everyone else holding their hand out for FEMA funding after 9/11?

We do we waste our [Filter Subversion] time [Filter Subversion] about hats and patches???

[Garibaldi]

Wow.  More angst and debate over hats and patches.  [sarc]

How about something productive like...

Why doesn't the USAF provide us more funding to equip or people to do THEIR missions?  Or...

Why wasn't CAP standing in line with everyone else holding their hand out for FEMA funding after 9/11?

We do we waste our [Filter Subversion] time [Filter Subversion] about hats and patches???

Because this board would become a lonely, empty place, devoid of any useful entertainment?