Ranger tab

[PHall]

Phil Hall: look at page one and see that the original question concerned a "white on red" Ranger tab.  As far as I know, from 34 years of Army service, the Ranger tab never consisted of those colors.  I think that the tab originally was yellow on black and most of them are subdued black on whatever color of field uniform is being worn at the time.

Therefore, this thread does seem to be about the Hawk Mt Ranger Tab, although it has gotten off track to the point of nobody remembering what caused it in the first place.

I think the first page or two actually talked about the Hawk Mtn "Ranger" patches. Then the thread drifted like they always do and turned into "just another uniform thread". Like they always do...

[flyboy53]

Phil Hall: look at page one and see that the original question concerned a "white on red" Ranger tab.  As far as I know, from 34 years of Army service, the Ranger tab never consisted of those colors.  I think that the tab originally was yellow on black and most of them are subdued black on whatever color of field uniform is being worn at the time.

Therefore, this thread does seem to be about the Hawk Mt Ranger Tab, although it has gotten off track to the point of nobody remembering what caused it in the first place.

I think the first page or two actually talked about the Hawk Mtn "Ranger" patches. Then the thread drifted like they always do and turned into "just another uniform thread". Like they always do...

If the uniform reg isn't updated to reflect the changes made at a National Board meeting, I sure wish someone would come up with a policy letter or the like that shows all these special uniform things if only to catalog everything and show what, if anything is allowed on the uniform after a person leaves the activity.

In the case of NBB, I never realized there were so many different beret flashes and patches. In the case of Hawk Mountain, I'm of that era when there was actually a set of wings issued to graduates.

I realize a lot of that stuff isn't awarded anymore, and I can't fault the individual for wanting to wear it, but it only causes problems when that person returns to the unit and it is only bling with no real ES-related value..

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I realize a lot of that stuff isn't awarded anymore, and I can't fault the individual for wanting to wear it, but it only causes problems when that person returns to the unit and it is only bling with no real ES-related value..

Does it have to be ES-related to have value to CAP?

I have a Master rating in Administration, which has very little to do with ES.  Is that of little value, or of less value than my Observer wings?

I think one problem in the organisation is that too many people are "all ES, all the time," orientated.

[abdsp51]

Icve noticed that alot.  I can teach skills that would be crucial to ES but I do not want to be heavily ingolved with ES.

[RangerLazaro]

Iam proud of my ranger tap, I earned it. Hooah!

[Eclipse]

I think one problem in the organisation is that too many people are "all ES, all the time," orientated.

We have too many people who choose one "thing" to the ignorance of anything else, and sometimes wear that ignorance as if it
were something to be proud of.  Our three missions have interdependence - none of them stand alone - and it would be difficult
to accomplish any one of them fully, as an organization, without the other two.

[lordmonar]

I think one problem in the organisation is that too many people are "all ES, all the time," orientated.

We have too many people who choose one "thing" to the ignorance of anything else, and sometimes wear that ignorance as if it
were something to be proud of.  Our three missions have interdependence - none of them stand alone - and it would be difficult
to accomplish any one of them fully, as an organization, without the other two.

I wonder in what world you live that you think that is really true.

Almost no one in CAP does the external AE program that I am aware of.
Also there are many many many senior squadrons that do a very good job with out seeing a single cadet.
And there are many cadet programs that do not do ES at all.

Now I know that you are saying we all aught to do all three missions....and that is a good thing.....but to say that ES id dependant on the CP or AE program is just assinine.

[Eclipse]

but to say that ES id dependant on the CP or AE program is just

Let me say that I have argued for years that AE as an independent "mission" is a red herring (assuming I'm using that term properly), because the majority of the goals of the AE side of the house are actually accomplished, whether by accident or by design, through the CP and ES.
My response was more aimed at those who believe ES is extraneous to the rest of CAP, not vice-versa, but they are all interdependent.

Without ES there are no airplanes, so any part of the CP or AE which requires airplanes is essentially gone.  The USAF is not going to fund
the largest private fleet of aircraft in the world to provide O-Rides to cadets.

Without airplanes there would be far fewer pilots and others related to aircraft who would be interested in participating.

Without the CP, ES would lose 1/3 of its resources overnight, while further, the CP provides the discipline and focus absent in the
average 12 year old which allows them to participate in the first place.  Without the CP, ES would essentially have to ramp-up
a similar program just to be able to herd the cats.

Any unit not involved with ES or AE is not accomplishing the mission, period.

Any senior squadron that never comes in contact with cadets is not accomplishing the mission, period.

Compartmentalized success is irrelevant to the point - they are treating CAP like a menu, which is not how its supposed to work,
and is part and parcel of the problem.

Everyone is dependent on the administration of the organization, as well as all the things which are necessary to train and qualify people.
We have far too many people who seem to look down on the finance, admin, and personnel people just because they don't wear an operational
badge, or don't work with cadets.

Etc., etc.

[lordmonar]

but to say that ES id dependant on the CP or AE program is just

Let me say that I have argued for years that AE as an independent "mission" is a red herring (assuming I'm using that term properly), because the majority of the goals of the AE side of the house are actually accomplished, whether by accident or by design, through the CP and ES.
My response was more aimed at those who believe ES is extraneous to the rest of CAP, not vice-versa, but they are all interdependent.

Without ES there are no airplanes, so any part of the CP or AE which requires airplanes is essentially gone.  The USAF is not going to fund
the largest private fleet of aircraft in the world to provide O-Rides to cadets.

O-rides is not even a required part of our CP.  I don't know of any cadet who has ever completed all 10 of their o-rides.  The CP would continue just find without planes.

Without airplanes there would be far fewer pilots and others related to aircraft who would be interested in participating.

Well....duhhh.

Without the CP, ES would lose 1/3 of its resources overnight, while further, the CP provides the discipline and focus absent in the
average 12 year old which allows them to participate in the first place.  Without the CP, ES would essentially have to ramp-up
a similar program just to be able to herd the cats.

I don't know about that.  I know in my neck of the woods cadets make up only a very small part of ES.

Any unit not involved with ES or AE is not accomplishing the mission, period.

So you assert......But you are wrong.....Overseas squadrons are forbidden to do ES..........so there you go.

Any senior squadron that never comes in contact with cadets is not accomplishing the mission, period.

Again so you assert....but the facts say differently. 

Compartmentalized success is irrelevant to the point - they are treating CAP like a menu, which is not how its supposed to work,
and is part and parcel of the problem.

Again....so you assert....if that is not how is is supposed to work....why does NHQ, region, wing, group not do something about all those cadet squadrons with no ES program or all those Senior squadrons with no contact with cadets?

Everyone is dependent on the administration of the organization, as well as all the things which are necessary to train and qualify people.
We have far too many people who seem to look down on the finance, admin, and personnel people just because they don't wear an operational
badge, or don't work with cadets.

Everyone in the USAF is there so that we can win air superioirty.....fly, flight and win!  But you know in all my 22 years in the USAF I never dropped a single bomb!  CAP has three missions....ES, CP, AE (in no particular order)....but each squadron is free to choose where they are going to focus.....and that is right.......some squadrons are not manned, trained or equiped to do all three missions.  So they should pick one and focus on that.

In a perfect world we would all have 200 member squadrons with 2 airplanes each, three vans, full GT gear and full mission base equipment.  We whould have dynamic and effective public speakers who can go out into the community and do the full exteran AE thing, we would have dedicated and engaged ES managers who have made full contact with the local ES agencies and got full buy in and full cooperations.

but let's face it....most squadrons have 30 members half of them are cadets under the age of 16.  We can't even get these guys to wear the uniform right! 

Saying that they are failures because they are only focusing on one of the three missions is not helping your position.


Etc., etc.
[/quote]

[JayT]

I am proud of my ranger tab, I earned it. Hooah!

What?

[Майор Хаткевич]

I am proud of my ranger tab, I earned it. Hooah!

What?

Ranger school is what? 12 weeks? 70% Wash out rate? I'd be proud too.

[HGjunkie]

I am proud of my ranger tab, I earned it. Hooah!

What?

Ranger school is what? 12 weeks? 70% Wash out rate? I'd be proud too.

I'm not sure that's the type of Ranger that was intended....

[lordmonar]

I am proud of my ranger tab, I earned it. Hooah!

What?

Ranger school is what? 12 weeks? 70% Wash out rate? I'd be proud too.

I don't think the wash out rate is quite that high.....it is an army school after all.....

[754837]

His profile indicates that he is 14 so that pretty much rules out being a Ranger.

[lordmonar]

His profile indicates that he is 14 so that pretty much rules out being a Ranger.

It rules out him being an U.S. Army Ranger.....but there are many other types of rangers.

[754837]

True - but it rules out the real ones.  He is not a game ranger, a park ranger or a forest ranger!

[Extremepredjudice]

True - but it rules out the real ones.  He is not a game ranger, a park ranger or a forest ranger!

None of those are real rangers? Are they cheap knockoffs made in china?

[754837]

Sure they are real but there are not 14 year old park, game or forest rangers.

[lordmonar]

There are not 14 year old park, game or forest rangers.

No....there are CAP rangers though.

[lordmonar]

True - but it rules out the real ones.  He is not a game ranger, a park ranger or a forest ranger!

None of those are real rangers? Are they cheap knockoffs made in china?

I like how you throw out that "REAL" in there.  I am sure that park rangers, Texas Rangers, and CAP Rangers may take offense.