Senior Officers uncomfortable in Air Force skin?

[Spaceman3750]

Golf shirts are as pervasive, and as annoying, as kudzu, but we've allowed the flying-club culture to pervade. Time to purge it, dontcha think?

Some of us want or need something very simple that can be easily swapped into between work and the meeting, for example. You're always welcome not to wear it, but I do, and am a highly dedicated member. Please don't assume that golf shirt = flying club.

[jimmydeanno]

I wear the polo all the time.  I also wear blues and BDUs.  My unit doesn't even have a plane, or pilots, so I'm not sure how we can have a flying club mentality.

It's a practical uniform and meets the needs of whatever I'm doing when I wear it.

[johnnyb47]

39-1, Page 6, Table 1-1 indicates when/IF a uniform should be worn.
the heading WEAR is checked (note: Not optional) for the item listed as:

when engaged in normal duties as a CAP member or attending local,
wing/region, or national CAP functions (see note 1).

Section 1-5 states:

Members will equip themselves with the basic uniform.

and

Members may obtain and wear the additional uniform items authorized in this publication on an optional basis.

So while table 1-1 may say:

senior members not meeting weight and grooming standards may wear CAP distinctive uniforms or civilian attire as befits the occasion.

The very next line clarifies it by defining normal CAP duties as a CAP member and attending local, wing/region or national CAP functions as occasions during which a uniform MUST be worn.

Thus you MUST own either a blues uniform or an aviator combo with the min. required trimmings.
When conducting CAP business as a CAP member you must wear at least the knit shirt combo.
If the occasion calls for a dres uniform and there is no equiv. for those that do not meet weight or grooming standards wear a suit.

COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY.

[Major Lord]

I don't even own the polo shirt.....I just wear the AF style uniforms. My guess is that most people who wear the polo shirt don't have AF uniforms because they don't meet weight/ grooming requirements ( and a few who just hate the military, America, God, and apple pie-you know who you are!) or are too cheap or poor to buy the AF Uniform. If we gave the axe to all the fat and fuzzies, we would lose about 1/2 our S/M's! I personally would rather see a corpulent  S/M in a distinctive uniform than with fat rolls hanging out of a too-tight USAF style uniform, which makes us all look like clowns, and is very embarrassing on an actual military base. ( Is that a doughnut in your footlocker Private Pyle?) 

Major Lord

[Hardshell Clam]

Hardshell....just admit it....you loathe the uniform, have no interest in wearing it and have comtempt for those who do.  You are not happy being part of a military aux. Please do CAP a favor and find an organization you will be happy in and stop trying to bring everyone down.  You might want to try a birdwatching group, literary club, etc.  They will gladly welcome you in civilian clothes.

No, I do not "loath" the uniform, the CAP or the military institution. I am proud to wear one when it is required by the regulations and choose to not wear it when not required. This is my personal choice, period. Do not assume a (rather) spirited debate concerning the regulations is anything but that.

As to trying to bring "everyone down", you alone control your happiness. Folks have a choice to read what I post, respond, hopefully with some thought and not insults. If reading differing views brings you down I would say, don't. And FYI: My boss would step on me like a bug if I was doing something wrong.

Cheers all.

[Eclipse]

My boss would step on me like a bug if I was doing something wrong.

Is he one of the "brass"?

[Salty]

To be fair I've seen plenty of people in the active USAF, USAFR and ANG who were too fat to wear the uniform.  It's not just a CAP issue.

Part of my job in the USAF was doing physical exams.  My exams have put more than one person on the WM program.  In fact, my first roommate in the USAF was booted because of his failure in the WM program.

You really have three choices when it comes to weight and senior members.

1)boot the overweight members
2)create a mandatory senior member fitness program
3)create uniforms that aren't subject to the weight standards

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

What I don't get is why there is a disconnect between the white aviator shirt/bbdu and the USAF blues/bdu.

It wasn't always that way.

When I joined CAP in 1993, everyone in my unit wore blues/BDU's.  I never saw any other uniform until I went to my first Wing activity, and it was the old-style white/grey (no epaulettes, no ribbons, blazer nameplate) and a smattering of Guyabera shirts.

When I saw the grey/white start to really come into use was when it was revised in 1995 to permit the grey rank slides and CAP blingage.

I've mentioned the flying club senior squadron I was a part of and their attitude toward uniforms being very similar to Radioman and Hardshell Clam.  That was 1999-2001.  The prevailing attitude there is that we shouldn't be wearing the AF uniform, period, because "we've got our own" (polo shirts, grey/white, blazer).  I have a picture of myself with the other staff members of a class conducted at that unit.  I am the ONLY one wearing USAF blues...everyone else is in the blazer, and that was exceptional.  Normal meeting dress was usually the golf shirt with whatever trousers struck the wearer's fancy at the time, or flight suits with no insignia except the leather nameplate.

Since then I have noticed a distinct shift in who wears which uniform demographically, though I don't mean it to be all-inclusive.

Longer-serving members, and ones with a military background, generally wear the USAF blues, if they can.  However, my CC is retired AF and wears the G/W because he has a beard occasionally and admits to being out of H/W for the blues.

Newer members and NPS members tend to gravitate toward the polo shirt/grey-white...maybe because it's simpler and cheap, and customs and courtesies don't apply.  However, one member I served with, an AGR ANG SMSgt, only wore the corporates because he said "I wear the AF uniform every day already."

I do think at some stage the "corporatists" will prevail and that it will end up being the AF uniform just for cadets and corporates for seniors.

What I don't understand is the fixation with grey...every time something is done with uniforms on the corporate side (CSU notwithstanding), it just seems to be "Let's make it grey!"

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

3)create uniforms that aren't subject to the weight standards

The "corporates" aren't subject to the weight standards, and our H/W standards are totally different to the AF's.

I just don't get it about the H/W standards...the CGAUX doesn't have them, the Navy Sea Cadets doesn't have them as stringently, and overseas cadet/auxiliaries don't...and their uniforms are much, much closer to their parent service than ours...

[tsrup]

What I don't get is why there is a disconnect between the white aviator shirt/bbdu and the USAF blues/bdu.

-
Newer members and NPS members tend to gravitate toward the polo shirt/grey-white...maybe because it's simpler and cheap, and customs and courtesies don't apply. 

The only exceptions listed in capp 151 for customs and courtesies are the polo (as you said) and the blazer.  All other combinations (such as the aviator shirt) require the rendering of all proper customs and courtesies.

[Salty]

My experience is a little bit different from yours.  I joined in 1989.  Cadets were wearing the OD green fatigues and the seniors were wearing the ultramarine blue utility uniform or civis.  The only senior member in the squadron who wore woodland bdu's was a friend of mine's dad (active ANG).  The deputy commander for cadets wore blues or the nomex green flightsuit.

During all my travels as a cadet I noticed the only time seniors were in blues was during commander's call.  I rarely saw the old blazer combination outside of a wing conference.

To be honest, the attitude towards uniforms in general doesn't seem a whole lot different now than when I left CAP in 1995.

[Hardshell Clam]

My boss would step on me like a bug if I was doing something wrong.

Is he one of the "brass"?

Does this remark have any meaning or just you sniping? I referred to "the brass" in a past post(s) generically referring to those appointed as leadership over my grade.

True to form you feel it necessary to engage in ad hominem like remarks.

[johnnyb47]

My boss would step on me like a bug if I was doing something wrong.

Is he one of the "brass"?

Does this remark have any meaning or just you sniping? I referred to "the brass" in a past post(s) generically referring to those appointed as leadership over my grade.

True to form you feel it necessary to engage in ad hominem like remarks.

"Point of parlimentary procudure, sir...."
you don't get to 13,000 posts by commenting ad rem ALL of the time.

[NCRblues]

My boss would step on me like a bug if I was doing something wrong.

Is he one of the "brass"?

Does this remark have any meaning or just you sniping? I referred to "the brass" in a past post(s) generically referring to those appointed as leadership over my grade.

True to form you feel it necessary to engage in ad hominem like remarks.

I really believe that if you answered a couple simple questions, the "sniping" would stop.

The members of this board here just want to know what kind of experience we are dealing with.

Simple answers will solve your problem. I am "anonymous" on this board, and yet I say when I joined CAP, and what unit/units I served with when on AD. You can to....

Answer how long you have been in cap, and how long you served in the military, and im pretty sure 90% of the snide comments about you would stop.

[Smokey]

Let's face it...Hardshell cannot answer the questions put to him because of false claims.  His claim to want to protect his privacy is a smokescreen to cover this up.  He pretends to be above the fray, answering in roundabout ways, with a holier than though attitude.  He does not have the courage to put up or shut up.

I say.....he's a troll trying to stir the pot.  Contrary to his claim of being a proud member he constantly tries to weasel around regs and march to his own drummer.  But my guess is the music he is marching to comes from the same voices he hears.....


I'm sure he will never reveal answers to the questions posed.  And I'm willing to back it up with my CAP salary for a year!

[RogueLeader]

I'll put up 3 years of my CAP paycheck.

[davidsinn]

I'll put up 3 years of my CAP paycheck.

I'll see your three and raise you two more...

[Extremepredjudice]

I'll put up 3 years of my CAP paycheck.

I'll see your three and raise you two more...

Now you are just rubbing it in.

[davidsinn]

I'll put up 3 years of my CAP paycheck.

I'll see your three and raise you two more...

Now you are just rubbing it in.

I don't have much use for trolls...

[jimmydeanno]

Trolls have useful implications as a fundraising entity for a local unit.