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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Safety  |  Topic: Armed CAP Members
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Author Topic: Armed CAP Members  (Read 27974 times)
Hardshell Clam
Seasoned Member

Posts: 242

« on: October 24, 2011, 06:58:28 PM »

I have a question after reading all the posts concerning armed CAP members:

Are there any (authorized) armed members out there?
 
And right up front, I am NOT in favor of armed members by virtue of a "CCW" permit as obtaining one can be a lengthy process or a simple mater of plunking down the cost of the permit and not having any felony record.

At a minimum, I would require 40 hours of range training and another 40 hours of classroom/legal training, a background investigation (not just a fingerprint check) and a mental exam such as the written MMPI test and a follow up interview with the shrink before considering allowing CAP members to be armed.
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RiverAux
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Posts: 10,966

« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2011, 07:01:37 PM »

There are no armed CAP members.  That implies that CAP is arming them or that the use of weapons is somehow part of CAP's program. 

There are individuals who are CAP members may continue carrying a weapon while conducting CAP activities. 
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tsrup
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Posts: 738
Unit: NCR-SD-031

« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2011, 07:14:51 PM »

There are no armed CAP members.  That implies that CAP is arming them or that the use of weapons is somehow part of CAP's program. 

There are individuals who are CAP members may who, despite a blatant violation of CAP regulations, continue carrying a weapon while conducting CAP activities.

FTFY,

just to clarify.
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RiverAux
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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2011, 07:19:31 PM »

Uh, you might want to check the actual regulation before "clarifying" my post in that way.  For example, from 900-3
Quote
A member may carry firearms on his/her person when required to do so by law provided he/she has a written statement of proof of such requirement signed by the wing commander.
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SARDOC
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Posts: 1,434

« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2011, 07:28:40 PM »

When I was a law enforcement officer I was required to carry while in the jurisdiction where I worked.  I just made it concealed when participating is CAP activities.

Also IIRC there are places where Pilots are required to carry or at least have an accessible Firearm...Alaska comes to mind.  Anybody please feel free to correct that.
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NCRblues
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« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2011, 07:40:35 PM »

My wing has a captain that is also a US Marshal. When he is on call, he is required to carry. He just conceals it and moves on with his day.

Heck, my handgun of choice (92FS) is never very far from me. Its not ON me, but it isnít far at all.  ;)
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tsrup
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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2011, 07:44:28 PM »

Uh, you might want to check the actual regulation before "clarifying" my post in that way.  For example, from 900-3
Quote
A member may carry firearms on his/her person when required to do so by law provided he/she has a written statement of proof of such requirement signed by the wing commander.

Conceded,
Forgot about LE and Alaska.
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RiverAux
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« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2011, 09:05:35 PM »

And keep in mind that its not just any law enforcement officer that falls under that exception.  It has to be required BY LAW, not just department policy that the officer must be armed even when off duty. 
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tsrup
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« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2011, 09:07:29 PM »

And keep in mind that its not just any law enforcement officer that falls under that exception.  It has to be required BY LAW, not just department policy that the officer must be armed even when off duty.

I seem to recall now a previous thread in which this was all discussed...
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RiverAux
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« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2011, 09:10:36 PM »

True, though it appears that Hardshell Clam is actually proposing to loosen the requirements and expand the number of people that could carry a weapon.
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tsrup
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« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2011, 09:12:25 PM »

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=10328.0
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Hardshell Clam
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Posts: 242

« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2011, 09:18:32 PM »

Just to clear up a few things:

1. Well DUH... I know the CAP is not an armed force. Please re-read my question and respond to the question asked. Please try to avoid getting off issue.

2. U.S. Marshals are not REQUIRED by law to be armed off duty. (I.e: "May" vs "Must".) Just a thought: Seems silly to be armed in your CAP uniform while "on call" as you can't respond in CAP uniform, so why not keep it in your bag with your "work cloths?

3. RiverAux: I am not perposing anything, just asking a question.

4. Tsruo: I stated I have read the former threads/posts.

So, with my question in mind,(Pleae reread it)...
« Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 09:21:41 PM by Hardshell Clam » Logged
tsrup
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« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2011, 09:25:40 PM »

Okay, on the subject at hand,

Who would conduct/certify the range training and classroom/legal training?

What would the objectives of these courses be?

I ask the second question from a Curriculum Design standpoint.  How about some tangible objectives.



I see no reason to open up the regulation as it currently is.  Either keep it the way it is or allow those who already have a CCW carry with the wing commander's approval.
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PHall
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« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2011, 09:31:59 PM »

Folks, CAPR 900-3 is pretty clear about this. We don't carry, period.
There are exceptions. Read the reg to see what they are.
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SARDOC
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« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2011, 09:33:41 PM »

  It has to be required BY LAW, not just department policy that the officer must be armed even when off duty.

A weird little nuance...but what happens when your department policy is adopted by reference into the City Charter and therefore ordinance?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2011, 09:37:51 PM »

3. RiverAux: I am not perposing anything, just asking a question.

Fair enough.  Why?

There are probably less members in CAP who would be required to carry a firearm during CAP duty then there are NCO's wearing grade from another service.  For those required to carry, no one needs to know.

For the record, you did, in fact, make a proposal in your original post.
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Hardshell Clam
Seasoned Member

Posts: 242

« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2011, 09:47:40 PM »


Tsrup: The training was just my thoughts of a mininum requirement for anyone armed and acting to defend othetrs.

PHall: I've read the regs and my question stands: Is there any auth peron (with a letter) armed while on CAP duties?

SARDOC: Is there any place that actully requires (by law) that off duty officers carry firearms? I would be interested to know who has that in their charter. HUGE liability as it makes the city/county, etc. absorb libility, just like when on duty. Even the NYPD dropped that years ago and department policy is not law.
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Hardshell Clam
Seasoned Member

Posts: 242

« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2011, 09:52:56 PM »

Sorry about my poor spelling, I'm on my phone and letters are way to small...

I'm about to give up as no one has responded to my question without convoluting same:

Are there any members auth (by reg and letter from wing CO) to carry firearms?

Easy question, easy answer.
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tsrup
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« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2011, 09:53:43 PM »


Tsrup: The training was just my thoughts of a mininum requirement for anyone armed and acting to defend othetrs.


I gathered that.

I just asked you to expand and justify.
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Hardshell Clam
Seasoned Member

Posts: 242

« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2011, 10:03:39 PM »


Tsrup: The training was just my thoughts of a mininum requirement for anyone armed and acting to defend othetrs.


I gathered that.

I just asked you to expand and justify.

OK then: I would not anyone around me, my family, cadets etc. who is armed by official permission to act as a defender with firearms unless I know they are well trained and mentality stable enough to do so.

Getting a CCW in a "must issue" state is not that hard. I know a lot of folks who have CCW permits and I would not let them guard my dog. I do not want to offend anyone, but in my state you pay the CCW fee and have no disqualifying crimes and woo-hoo you can carry a gun. Some folks go out and buy a CCW badge, and that is a real warning flag as far as I'm concerned...
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Safety  |  Topic: Armed CAP Members
 


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