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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: Adding Requirements to Cadet Promotions
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GTCommando
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Posts: 255
Unit: GLR-OH-288

Pathfinders Cadet Squadron
« on: October 18, 2011, 04:05:57 AM »

Greetings,
 I seem to remember that, in the last version of CAPR 52-16, there was a provision that Squadron Commanders may add additional requirements to cadet promotions. However, I was looking through the newest version of 52-16 and could find nothing of the sort.

So, I present two questions.
1.  Was there such a provision in the old 52-16?
2.  Was said provision removed in newer editions of the regs, or is it there and I'm just missing it?

 Just to make it clear, these questions didn't come up due to an issue at the Squadron, or anything of that nature. I was looking through some older documents from different units around CAP, and I'm just curious. Any help would be appreciated.
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C/Maj, CAP                 
Alpha Flight Commander                     
Pathfinder Composite squadron
Earhart #15889

"For the partisan, when he is engaged in a dispute, cares nothing about the rights of the question, but is anxious only to convince his hearers." -- Socrates
SARDOC
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Posts: 1,432

« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2011, 04:32:28 AM »

I would think that it would depend entirely on what you mean by "additional requirements"  If you could provide some examples it would help.

Ultimately according to CAPR 52-16 it says about promotions that
Quote
By approving a promotion, the commander is attesting to the
cadetís ability to accept the increased responsibilities that accompany the promotion.

If the Cadet was assigned tasks because of their role in the organization such as First Sergeant, Flight Commander, element leader and they failed to do so.  Then they are obviously not ready for increased responsibility.
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lordmonar
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Posts: 10,680

« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2011, 04:49:18 AM »

About the only thing I can think about as an "additional" requirment is how you define "be active in squadron activities".  Some units interpet that as saying that you have to particpate in at least one non meeting activity per promotion (assuming that they have them).

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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
GTCommando
Seasoned Member

Posts: 255
Unit: GLR-OH-288

Pathfinders Cadet Squadron
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2011, 04:02:35 PM »

I apologize for not being clear. By 'Additional requirements,' I mean things like the examples below.

C/SSgt: Prepare and present a 30-minute aerospace class.

C/1st Lt: Prepare and present a Character Development session. Assistance can be received from the Chaplain.

C/Maj: Serve as an encampment staff member.

C/Lt Col: Serve as a project officer for a Wing CAC project, encampment executive staff member, or a Cadet Commander for a Wing-level Activity.

IOW, a Commander adds duty/speech requirements to a specific achievement or milestone award, besides the normal requirements for leadership, aerospace, fitness and character. Most of these things wouldn't be an issue for an active cadet at that level, but as far as making them a prerequisite for promotion I couldn't find anything supporting that in the new regs.

EDIT: Something I forgot to add: These additional requirements would be all-inclusive, covering all cadets in the unit. Just FYI, thank you all for your replies.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 04:10:09 PM by GTCommando » Report to moderator   Logged
C/Maj, CAP                 
Alpha Flight Commander                     
Pathfinder Composite squadron
Earhart #15889

"For the partisan, when he is engaged in a dispute, cares nothing about the rights of the question, but is anxious only to convince his hearers." -- Socrates
Eclipse
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Posts: 29,657

« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 04:06:26 PM »

Those would be considered "objective requirements", and prohibited.  Cadets denied promotion because of that would have strong grounds
for a complaint.

From 52-16
e. Retaining a Cadet in Grade. Commanders should retain a cadet in grade if the cadetís performance or maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with the promotion. Using the CAPF 50, Cadet Leadership Feedback, the commander (or deputy commander) will offer constructive feedback to help the cadet develop his/her leadership skills. The commander must also schedule a follow-up review to be held within 60 days.

A commander denying promotion needs to document the reasons, and one indicating anything objective would be in violation of the regs.
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Al Sayre
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Unit: SER-MS-001

Mississippi Wing
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2011, 04:11:17 PM »

Also the only requirement for encampment attendance is for the Mitchell award. As encampment requires a significant investment of both time and money, the requirements for additional encampment activities for Phase IV cadets to promote would be an immediate non-starter.
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Lt Col Al Sayre
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Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
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coudano
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Posts: 1,137

« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2011, 04:48:29 PM »

I don't think that was explicitly permitted in the old regs either.

Quote
b. Significance of Promotions. By approving a promotion, the commander is attesting to the
cadetís ability to accept the increased responsibilities that accompany the promotion.

This is pretty broad, and I use it to do some things such as:

a)  My NCO's have certain monitoring and mentoring tasks that they are required to do on the airmen assigned under them.  If an NCO is failing to do their job, then they aren't getting promoted even if they've met the other minimums.  This is intended as a tool to measure their direct leadership skills found on the expectation charts for phase 2.

b)  My Cadet officers are required to plan and execute a squadron activity per promotion.  In addition to the other minimum programmed requirements.  In my world, staffing an encampment would count, but it's not explicitly required (many other things would count equally).  This is intended as a tool to evaluate their indirect leadership skills specifically found in the expectation charts for phases 3 and 4.

Quote
e. Retaining a Cadet in Grade.  Commanders should retain a cadet in grade if the cadetís
performance or  maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility
commensurate with the promotion. Using the CAPF 50, Cadet Leadership Feedback, the commander
(or deputy commander) will offer constructive feedback to help the cadet develop his/her leadership
skills. The commander must also schedule a follow-up review to be held within 60 days.

So how do you judge a cadet's performance (capability) and maturity, other than to assign them tasks, and evaluate them while they do it?

MOST squadrons staff positions are just titles, and don't mean much of anything in a measurable definitive sense.  But what's the difference between a well-defined staff title that has measurable criteria, and an arbitrary list of task requirements as presented in this thread?

In other words, a squadron simply goes "hey when you are a C/SSgt you are going to pull a tour as the cadet aerospace education officer, and that means you teach a 30 minute class on aerospace".  Failure to do your staff job means failure to promote.



**I have argued in favor of starting formal writing and speaking earlier in the cadet career, rather than clobbering cadets out of the blue on the Armstrong achievement.  But quite frankly most of our plates are too full as is to add another major element like that.  I think we would be better off for it though, if we did.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 04:51:30 PM by coudano » Report to moderator   Logged
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