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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Civil Air Patrol Member's Use of MWR Facilities/Programs?
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Author Topic: Civil Air Patrol Member's Use of MWR Facilities/Programs?  (Read 4187 times)
RADIOMAN015
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« on: October 08, 2011, 12:58:04 PM »

I got interested in this when I started hearing rumors about CAP personnel (not on any orders) using gyms, belong to AF clubs, bowling alleys, & utilizing on base flight schools.

Reviewing AFR 34-262, attachment 2 eligibility/priority of use
  (see:  http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI34-262.pdf 
I can't seem to find ANYTHING that specifically address Civil Air Patrol members use of these facilities/programs although there appears to be quite a bit of latitude at the base level.

Now personally, I have no issue with "active" Civil Air Patrol members (active being defined as participating/contributing on a regular basis to CAP programs) and would like to see the regulation (table A2.2, Limited Program Eligibility & Use Priority) specifically changed to allow CAP members some benefits.

I might also add that this would be for "active" CAP members, and there would need to be a certification process involving the CAP leadership to ensure that NO personnel are joining CAP just to get to access to certain base facilities/programs.   

Wonder who in the AF would be willing to take a look at this ???
RM
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 01:19:44 PM by RADIOMAN015 » Logged
ol'fido
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« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2011, 01:38:41 PM »

1. A lot of, not all, services on base are open to the general public. You don't have to show I'd at the base Burger King.

2 I imagine a lot of CAP members near base are active,  reserve, guard, retired or dependents.

3. The base may extend the courtesy to CAP members.
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Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
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Eclipse
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« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2011, 01:46:57 PM »

I got interested in this when I started hearing rumors about CAP personnel (not on any orders) using gyms, belong to AF clubs, bowling alleys, & utilizing on base flight schools.

Why?

Wonder who in the AF would be willing to take a look at this.

The answer is no one, including you.  Use of MWR is going to be specific to the base, depending on what resources are available, whether there is a unit resident, and how involved the State Director and others are with local military.  If it affects you, ask.  If not, MYOB.
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Chief2009
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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2011, 02:31:06 PM »

Seriously?

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Dan Nelson, 1st Lt, CAP
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Illinois Valley Composite Squadron GLR-IL-284
RADIOMAN015
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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2011, 03:22:59 PM »

Seriously?
Well, most CAP members believe that they are helping the USAF (and the USAF has the same opinion), so why not by specific regulation reference priority give them the appropriate access to some limited benefits, versus the "whim of the installation commander".   HOWEVER, again this is for "active" CAP members.   Hey if someone including CAP members wants to eat at the base pizza shop, that isn't an issue (and never has been).
RM
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Eclipse
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2011, 03:33:37 PM »

I believe he means why is this a topic or a concern of yours...

...specific regulation reference priority give them the appropriate access to some limited benefits, versus the "whim of the installation commander".

Priority?  Newsflash, everything on a military base is at the whim of the commander, and nearly everything in MWR is Space-A
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Persona non grata
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2011, 03:41:26 PM »

Great, I can  see it now......some CAP Lt.Colonel ordering a AD MAJOR TO GET HIS KIDS OUT OF THE BASE SWIMMING POOL. ::)  If you want MWR services go see a recruiter, it might take a while to start using the services after your initial application is reviewed.   When I use to use MWR facilities like the gym or pool, I would get annoyed when people would invite non I.D carrying folks to use such things.  Its pretty bad when they are checking I.D cards at the pool because every person and there cousin is getting on base to use it.  I have no problem with people using the officers swimming pool as we use to say >:D(AT EVERY INSTALLATION ITS USUALLY >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D LOCATED AT THE WASTE TREATMENT FACILITY)

just my rant........   
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Rock, Flag & Eagle.........
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2011, 03:43:15 PM »

No offense but I like to think of MWR like the country club.....If you are not a member you are not invited to use the services.
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CyBorg
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2011, 03:47:35 PM »

Another chance for RM to show CAP "abuses" of the Real Military's services...

Ach.

When I first went on an AFB as a CAP member in 1994, I asked what we had access to.

We could eat at the base Burger King.

We could buy uniform items at the BX/MCSS.

The wing king extended the courtesy of being able to buy anything but booze/butts at the Shopette.

We could stay at the base Inn for CAP activity weekends at a discounted rate; as a 2nd Lt. I think I paid $8 per night.

We could eat at the dining hall during CAP weekends at a discounted rate.

I never knew of any CAP member trying to use the base theatre, Commissary, buy non-uniform BX items or use the base gas station.
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CyBorg
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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2011, 03:48:33 PM »

Great, I can  see it now......some CAP Lt.Colonel ordering a AD MAJOR TO GET HIS KIDS OUT OF THE BASE SWIMMING POOL. ::)

A bit paranoid, yes?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2011, 04:17:48 PM »

MWR is also not just the gym and pool.  Some bases offer tents, campers, pop-up shelters, tables, chairs, and other stuff which
can well be used for actual CAP mission and activity use.

BTDT.
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« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2011, 04:19:29 PM »

So  is it not cool to park in GO parking when using the base pool? .  I use to date a smoking hot MP who use to house sit for General Barnicke.
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Rock, Flag & Eagle.........
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« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2011, 04:21:04 PM »

MWR is also not just the gym and pool.  Some bases offer tents, campers, pop-up shelters, tables, chairs, and other stuff which
can well be used for actual CAP mission and activity use.

BTDT.

You can also sign out golf clubs 8)
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jimmydeanno
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« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2011, 04:39:57 PM »

I honestly don't see an issue with the majority of MWR offerings being available to CAP members.  Many of them aren't the end cause that we think they are.  Many of them are used to raise money to support other causes, like subsidizing child-care on base for military members.  So, were I an installation commander, I would gladly open up those services which were revenue generating or revenue neutral to CAP members.

However, the services that use money from those funds I would continue to restrict to the audience they are designed to support.

1. BX/Commissary/Class 6/Gas Station/DFAC = % Profit returned to base services for military members = OK for CAP to use.

2. Child Care Facility/Air Force Aid Society Loans/Youth Center = Use of profits from item 1 to provide services for military members = NOT OK for CAP to use.
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BillB
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« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2011, 04:56:37 PM »

At one time CAP was eligible for BX/Commissary, gas station but never class 6. And that required being attending a CAP activity on base and in base housing.
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
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RiverAux
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« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2011, 05:40:17 PM »

I can't think of anything that a base would have on it that would be worth the hassle of gaining regular access (and I'm including anything up to and including free gas).
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BillB
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« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2011, 06:07:21 PM »

At an encampment the abiulity to buy a can of coffee and a pound of sugar at the commissary is of value. And the gas is not free, normally it's a few cents cheaper at the base gas station that stations in town. Saves the cost to a small degree of transporting 10 cadets from the encampment. And having to drive off base DURING the encampment to transport cadets around the base between training locations is a pain in the .....neck.
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Gil Robb Wilson # 19
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PhoenixCadet
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« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2011, 06:17:25 PM »

I can't think of anything that a base would have on it that would be worth the hassle of gaining regular access (and I'm including anything up to and including free gas).

Free gas?  I want to know what base(s) you frequent!  Really, though, all the stuff I see on-base nowadays is equal to (if not more expensive) than off base...
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Alex Ramos
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« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2011, 06:32:31 PM »

Gas is close to 10 cents more on base than the Arco that is typically the cheapest in the county, right near by. It didn't used to be that way, but ever since the 2007 price quest, it's been that way. If you compute in the tax you would pay, the BX prices tend to be higher as the shelf price on a lot of stuff is already the same. Give or take a few cents.  As for tax on gas, I can see the Federal Motor Vehicle Tax portion, but if the sales tax exemption is extended to gas, on base, then it's actually *a lot* more expensive. As you're paying almost 40 cents tax on that gallon, too, if sales tax is collected in some places.

It's priced what it is because .. they can.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2011, 06:42:55 PM »

I can't think of anything that a base would have on it that would be worth the hassle of gaining regular access (and I'm including anything up to and including free gas).

Free gas?  I want to know what base(s) you frequent!  Really, though, all the stuff I see on-base nowadays is equal to (if not more expensive) than off base...

That is my experience, quoth the Wiki:

Pricing discrepancies
Although the Exchange facilities do not charge taxes on products (which includes excise taxes), the prices for alcohol and tobacco products are only marginally cheaper than retail stores that charge taxes. The lowest price for which tobacco and alcohol can be sold is limited by DoD directive. For tobacco products sold in CONUS, the price floor is 5% less than the most competitive local price in the local community; for OCONUS, tobacco prices fall within the range of the CONUS market. Alcohol sold in CONUS will be sold not less than 10% below the best price in Alcohol Beverage Control states, and not less than 5% below the competitive rate at non Alcohol Beverage Control states. According to the Exchange , these limits are set by the Department of Defense, per DoD Instruction 1330.9. According to the DoD, the purpose of this is to comply with the deglamorization of alcohol and tobacco policy.
Gas sales

The Hayden Cartwright Act does require the Exchange to pay these taxes. Fuel sold to military personnel on military installations is often sold at nearly the same rate as that found at nearby civilian locations, with it becoming increasingly common to find stations in surrounding communities selling fuel for several cents less per gallon. According to the Exchange, gasoline prices are only marginally cheaper because the individual stores are required to be "competitive" with off-post locales. In most locations, the exchanges are required to set prices to the exact rate of the lowest civilian rate within a certain number of miles of the installation's boundary, generally within five miles. Prices will be surveyed at each rate and the lowest price for each rate will be the price set at all fueling stations within that installation, or within that region of the installation in the case of larger installations where identical prices may not be practical. Prices may be surveyed at a rate determined appropriate for the local installation, up to multiple times per day, but not less frequently than weekly. Prices may amount to a loss for the exchange; the Exchange is the only military exchange service permitted to lose money on fuel sales.

See also

The only reason to shop there is convenience because you need something now, or perhaps some uniform items if you happen to be there.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2011, 07:56:32 PM by Eclipse » Logged

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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Civil Air Patrol Member's Use of MWR Facilities/Programs?
 


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