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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: ABUs
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shuman14
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« Reply #420 on: November 15, 2013, 02:47:37 AM »

505's and 1505's weren't poly-cotton. The 505's required a metric crapton of Sta-Flo starch to look good and the Permament Press 1505's weren't.

Well, hopefully if (and I realize this is just spit-balling) we decide to go that route, we would go with more manageable materials like wash-and-wear poly-cotton, and nothing too complicated.

If it requires starch or dry-cleaning (for a regular "duty" or "field" uniform), that would be a no-go.

I wear Blauer Streetgear at work in LAPD Blue. Excellent uniform, wash-n-wear, requires very little maintenance and I do believe they make them in silver-tan khaki.
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Joseph J. Clune
Major (Promotable), Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
Panache
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« Reply #421 on: November 15, 2013, 02:55:03 AM »

You say that like if this is an official venue for discussion of the direction this organization takes..

Sure, look at 39-1 now with regards to off the shelf items. There's no standard specification, but at least fits a common description.

Now lets change that to something you can't even buy in more than six places perhaps.

You just know there's going to be howling about that. ;-)

It can be argued that Khaki/silver-tan is easier to acquire than AF blue uniforms, which as far as I know has only two official outlets: AAFES and Vanguard.

And khaki/silver-tan uniforms are pretty common in several private and public sector professions. 

I did a quick search, for example, and found these:  Shirts, pants, and Propper has plenty of khaki field uniforms listed.
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Panache
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« Reply #422 on: November 15, 2013, 02:57:59 AM »

I wear Blauer Streetgear at work in LAPD Blue. Excellent uniform, wash-n-wear, requires very little maintenance and I do believe they make them in silver-tan khaki.

Indeed they do.
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shuman14
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Unit: NHQ-996

« Reply #423 on: November 15, 2013, 03:19:20 AM »

I wear Blauer Streetgear at work in LAPD Blue. Excellent uniform, wash-n-wear, requires very little maintenance and I do believe they make them in silver-tan khaki.

Indeed they do.

So I guess the trick would be to get them to produce a Class A Service Jacket/Tunic/Blouse in a matching color and material.

If CAP were to adopt it, I'm sure that Blauer would see the profit in producing them.
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Joseph J. Clune
Major (Promotable), Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
SarDragon
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Posts: 10,512
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #424 on: November 15, 2013, 03:53:28 AM »

I wear Blauer Streetgear at work in LAPD Blue. Excellent uniform, wash-n-wear, requires very little maintenance and I do believe they make them in silver-tan khaki.

Indeed they do.

So I guess the trick would be to get them to produce a Class A Service Jacket/Tunic/Blouse in a matching color and material.

If CAP were to adopt it, I'm sure that Blauer would see the profit in producing them.

Are you sure? Ever hear of economy of scale? I'm going to use a nice round, but unrealistic, number to demonstrate. It's 60,000 as the membership number, and disregards gender.

You're talking about producing uniforms to fit 60,000 members in, oh, let's say, 100 sizes. That's likely a low estimate. That's an initial outfitting of 6,00 units per size. That's a drop in the bucket, and might not worth spending the startup costs for adding something new to their line.

Regular, daily wear, users might wear out a uniform in as little as a year, so there's continuous throughput in sales. CAP members wear their stuff about once a week, and if this is a dress uniform, might be worn as little as once a month. Once the initial run is sold off, the sales will drop off. That's not a good business model.

YMMV.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
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« Reply #425 on: November 15, 2013, 03:59:33 AM »

Aaah, but there's already a widely-distributed and well-sold khaki service coat on the market already.

The Navy's.

All we have to do is change the buttons out and... ta-da.  There we go.  And it's already the same shade as the tunic and pants that the Navy uses.
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AlphaSigOU
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The Kwaj Drafter!
« Reply #426 on: November 15, 2013, 04:06:49 AM »

Aaah, but there's already a widely-distributed and well-sold khaki service coat on the market already.

The Navy's.

All we have to do is change the buttons out and... ta-da.  There we go.  And it's already the same shade as the tunic and pants that the Navy uses.

[sarcasm] And ya think the Squiddies are gonna roll over and let the 'wannabe Air Farce' wear their khakis? [/sarcasm]
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Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
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Panache
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« Reply #427 on: November 15, 2013, 04:14:30 AM »

[sarcasm] And ya think the Squiddies are gonna roll over and let the 'wannabe Air Farce' wear their khakis? [/sarcasm]

We already look like USCG while wearing the BBDUs, so we might as stick with the theme!  :P
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SarDragon
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« Reply #428 on: November 15, 2013, 04:18:50 AM »

Aaah, but there's already a widely-distributed and well-sold khaki service coat on the market already.

The Navy's.

All we have to do is change the buttons out and... ta-da.  There we go.  And it's already the same shade as the tunic and pants that the Navy uses.

Even the Navy Chiefs and officers aren't wild about wearing that thing.

Another consideration - do they make this coat in 12 yo sizes?
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Dave Bowles
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« Reply #429 on: November 15, 2013, 04:42:02 AM »

Another consideration - do they make this coat in 12 yo sizes?

My suggestion was the cadets stay in AF blues/BDUs (or ABUs).  Only the seniors would wear the khaki uniforms.
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shuman14
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« Reply #430 on: November 15, 2013, 04:44:28 AM »

Aaah, but there's already a widely-distributed and well-sold khaki service coat on the market already.

The Navy's.

All we have to do is change the buttons out and... ta-da.  There we go.  And it's already the same shade as the tunic and pants that the Navy uses.

Even the Navy Chiefs and officers aren't wild about wearing that thing.

Another consideration - do they make this coat in 12 yo sizes?

My intent was for it to be a Senior member only uniform and for the cadets to continue to wear the USAF Style uniforms.

BUT

If the cadets were to switch to khaki as well, that would increase the numbers of buyers and that "might" effect Biauer's willingness to produce a siver-tan Service coat to match the shirts and trousers they already produce.  ;)
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Joseph J. Clune
Major (Promotable), Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
SarDragon
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« Reply #431 on: November 15, 2013, 05:40:02 AM »

OOPS! Now you've dropped the numbers in half, and the number of sizes by about a third. Let's say 60 sizes. That's now just 500 uniforms in each size. 30,000 uniforms isn't going to get anything more than a giggle from the manufacturer. They probably won't agree to using a Navy item as is, because of existing regs, so something would need to be modified, changing it into a new product.

While we're at it, how about rank insignia, especially the NCOs? For officers, the grey stuff won't work as-is, because the shirt and coat designs differ from what the AF uses.
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Dave Bowles
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« Reply #432 on: November 15, 2013, 06:01:16 AM »

While we're at it, how about rank insignia, especially the NCOs? For officers, the grey stuff won't work as-is, because the shirt and coat designs differ from what the AF uses.

Sew-on CAP chevrons for NCO's, and pin-on metal grade on the collars for SM officers.
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shuman14
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Posts: 982
Unit: NHQ-996

« Reply #433 on: November 15, 2013, 06:06:56 AM »

OOPS! Now you've dropped the numbers in half, and the number of sizes by about a third. Let's say 60 sizes. That's now just 500 uniforms in each size. 30,000 uniforms isn't going to get anything more than a giggle from the manufacturer. They probably won't agree to using a Navy item as is, because of existing regs, so something would need to be modified, changing it into a new product.

While we're at it, how about rank insignia, especially the NCOs? For officers, the grey stuff won't work as-is, because the shirt and coat designs differ from what the AF uses.

You didn't read the other thread did you?

As to rank, the current blue chevrons would go right onto the proposed khaki uniform, again part of the USAF Blue "highlights" to the uniform (IE Blue flight caps and/or combination cap, blue tie, blue belts).

If pin-on rank is used, no issues, just pin it on and for the service coat, pin on would be the insignia used.

As to the shirts, if you carefully undo the X-stitch on the shirt epaulets, normal military rank slides will fit on them without issue. Our LTs at the VA use Army 1LT shoulder slides on their shirts and they fit fine. So using current USAF Blue rank slides would be an option and would add another USAF Blue highlight.

If Ma Blue has an issue, pretty sure Vanguard will have khaki rank slides ready in two shakes of a dragons tail.  ;)

personally I like old school, pin-on rank on right shirt collar and pin-on C.A.P. on left collar for Officers and sleeve rank and disc C.A.P. on both shirt collars for NCOs.

Silver name tag on service coat and old school two-line blue plastic name tag on shirts (another USAF Blue highlight). 
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Joseph J. Clune
Major (Promotable), Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
SarDragon
Global Moderator

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« Reply #434 on: November 15, 2013, 07:37:24 AM »

All of the khaki/silver-tan dress shirts I saw had no epaulets.

Since there appears to be more than one supplier, which one do you use, to ensure uniformity, and who chooses?
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
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« Reply #435 on: November 15, 2013, 07:56:00 AM »

http://www.flyingcross.com/Duro-Poplin-Mens-Short-Sleeve-Shirt.aspx

http://www.flyingcross.com/Command-Mens-Side-Pocket-Pants-2-in-Belt-Loops-Pocket-Flaps.aspx
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jeders
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Posts: 2,123

« Reply #436 on: November 15, 2013, 09:57:40 AM »

Orrrr...Since we're already designing a new Senior Member only uniform with no real purpose, why don't we go with something that everyone should already have in the back of their closet or something that they can easily pick up at someplace like Sears/Wal-Mart/Target. I'm thinking a white shirt with some kind of dress pants, grey is pretty common. Oh, and for a dress uniform, just throw on a blue blazer.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #437 on: November 15, 2013, 10:37:19 AM »

Blazer != Service Coat.
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jeders
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« Reply #438 on: November 15, 2013, 11:07:15 AM »

Blazer != Service Coat.

Works well enough for me.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
Papabird
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« Reply #439 on: November 15, 2013, 11:26:53 AM »

Blazer != Service Coat.

Works well enough for me.

Could we possibly lose the old US Army nameplate on this then?  You know, the big black one with pins stuck in it?  Do we need the Wing on it still, and the old CAP crest (which is larger directly underneath in the Blazer)?   :o

It made sense when would could/would wear the nameplate on the white shirt by itself, but now that is out...Just looks odd.

Oh well.
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Michael Willis, Lt. Col CAP
Gwinnett Composite Squadron - Here to serve
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: ABUs
 


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