Qualifications Suspended for Safety Education Lapse

Spaceman3750 · July 01, 2011, 06:24:58 PM

I'm not sure if this is brand new or if it's been around for a couple of months, but just a heads up that OPS QUAL is now automatically suspending or otherwise "turning off" the qualifications of members whose safety education has lapsed. I have a member whose quals all say "SAFETY INCOMPLETE" - not even his GES is valid anymore.

I've let my ES-active members know.

Eclipse · July 01, 2011, 06:30:48 PM

Is incomplete the same as not current?

I think incomplete means they didn't do the basic stuff, not the monthly requals.

Spaceman3750 · July 01, 2011, 06:41:52 PM

The particular member I am looking at has completed ORM-B and Intro to CAP Safety. His quals were good last time I went into his record. His monthly safety education has timed out.

jeders · July 01, 2011, 06:43:16 PM

I believe "Safety Incomplete" is the verbiage eServices is using as a quick identifier to say that the member is not current on their monthly safety briefing.

jks19714 · July 01, 2011, 06:48:20 PM

Quote from: jeders on July 01, 2011, 06:43:16 PM
I believe "Safety Incomplete" is the verbiage eServices is using as a quick identifier to say that the member is not current on their monthly safety briefing.

Uncle CAP's way of saying that you've exceeded your "Best by" date.

peter rabbit · July 01, 2011, 07:36:46 PM

It is my understanding that it checks for both the Intro to CAP Safety and the monthly briefing requirement. WMIRS will recognize that a pilot's safety qualifications aren't current. However, last time I checked, WMIRS would let a passenger fly without being current. This started 1 June.

a2capt · July 01, 2011, 10:15:15 PM

It means it's been anywhere from 30 to 60 days since they last had been logged as attending some safety briefing. Be it the monthly subject at the meeting, the beginning of an activity, or...

When your safety currency is updated by someone logging your attendance, you don't have to do it again for as long as 60 days. You have until the end of the next calendar month from the one you did it last.

If your safety is expired and you are acting like Mr. Hard Cool, there's a fairly good chance you're faking something. ;-) Because if you attend meetings regularly, or participate in unit activities (at least some of them), like the cadet oath says that cadets shall do, it's pretty darn hard to have safety currency lapse.

OTOH, if you are not doing much of anything, well then.. ;-)

Eclipse · July 01, 2011, 10:35:33 PM

^ Also, for those of us at a non-unit echelon, any activity or unit meeting you attend that has a briefing should record your
participation which will reset your clock.

Over the summer a lot of members are away from regular meetings for encampments, NCSA's, etc., all of those have to have safety
briefings, and should be recording compliance online.

Same goes for missions, real or training.

rebowman · July 20, 2011, 11:30:44 PM

Have you read the safety policy?

? Members MUST have completed Intro to CAP AND their monthly safety briefing to participate in anything.

This has been put out many many times. Relatively new requirement but one that has been communicated.

Spaceman3750 · July 21, 2011, 02:54:02 AM

Quote from: rebowman on July 20, 2011, 11:30:44 PM
Have you read the safety policy?? Members MUST have completed Intro to CAP AND their monthly safety briefing to participate in anything.

This has been put out many many times. Relatively new requirement but one that has been communicated.

Yes, I have. Until last month eServices wasn't automatically ~~revoking~~ suspending your quals if you lapse. Now it is. That was the point.

Short Field · July 21, 2011, 05:23:07 AM

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on July 21, 2011, 02:54:02 AM
Until last month eServices wasn't automatically revoking your quals if you lapse. Now it is. That was the point.

Suspending or Revoking? Big difference.

Spaceman3750 · July 21, 2011, 05:46:33 AM

Quote from: Short Field on July 21, 2011, 05:23:07 AM
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on July 21, 2011, 02:54:02 AM
Until last month eServices wasn't automatically revoking your quals if you lapse. Now it is. That was the point.

Suspending or Revoking? Big difference.

Meant suspending. Don't know why I put revoking.

rebowman · July 21, 2011, 10:15:16 PM

Of course they would. otherwise, how do they prevent people from participating in ES

SAR-EMT1 · July 22, 2011, 01:14:50 AM

I see the whole requirement as a completely inappropriate waste of time.
Does CAP have accidents? (which I am sure are the root cause of this new demand) SURE

Should national punish everyone for the inattention of a few? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Can someone please tell me one good thing that will come out of adding yet one more item to an ever growing list of demands this organization places on the membership ?

Spaceman3750 · July 22, 2011, 01:23:22 AM

Quote from: rebowman on July 21, 2011, 10:15:16 PM
Of course they would. otherwise, how do they prevent people from participating in ES

Well, since that just because my qual lapses in OPS QUAL doesn't mean my paper 101 suddenly changes (so long as I don't re print it) and since I have yet to see someone verify me on a computer at check in I'm going to hazard a guess that it's not really doing anything at all.

That said, I'm not saying I was shocked, surprised, or upset by it. I was simply saying that it was happening. Please stop with the "Duh" response - at the time I posted it was a fairly new development.

peter rabbit · July 22, 2011, 02:33:56 AM

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on July 22, 2011, 01:14:50 AM
I see the whole requirement as a completely inappropriate waste of time.
Does CAP have accidents? (which I am sure are the root cause of this new demand) SURE

Should national punish everyone for the inattention of a few? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Can someone please tell me one good thing that will come out of adding yet one more item to an ever growing list of demands this organization places on the membership ?

I would venture a guess that some of the push for this comes from a legal liability slant to reduce exposure in the event of an accident/mishap/incident, and some to create a culture in which everyone has safety in the back of their mind.

Thom · July 22, 2011, 03:03:22 AM

Quote from: Spaceman3750 on July 22, 2011, 01:23:22 AM
Quote from: rebowman on July 21, 2011, 10:15:16 PM
Of course they would. otherwise, how do they prevent people from participating in ES

Well, since that just because my qual lapses in OPS QUAL doesn't mean my paper 101 suddenly changes (so long as I don't re print it) and since I have yet to see someone verify me on a computer at check in I'm going to hazard a guess that it's not really doing anything at all.

That said, I'm not saying I was shocked, surprised, or upset by it. I was simply saying that it was happening. Please stop with the "Duh" response - at the time I posted it was a fairly new development.

You will notice more folks trying to use a variety of programs to actually validate check-ins at mission base in the coming months. We have more tools than ever before, and better linkages (though still mostly imperfect) to the MIMS/eServices databases. I can't say what every Wing is doing, but I know a few are moving forward with trying to get to 100% validated checkin.

Also, WMIRS now auto-checks your Safety status if you are listed as a crew member on a flight, so no flying in a CAP aircraft if you are out of safety compliance. That one was a bit of a surprise for some folks!

Thom

Eclipse · July 22, 2011, 03:22:41 AM

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on July 22, 2011, 01:14:50 AM
I see the whole requirement as a completely inappropriate waste of time.
Does CAP have accidents? (which I am sure are the root cause of this new demand) SURE

Should national punish everyone for the inattention of a few? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Can someone please tell me one good thing that will come out of adding yet one more item to an ever growing list of demands this organization places on the membership?

For starters, safety training is not "punishment".

Next, despite a lot of people whining and complaining about safety training and how it's a "waste of time", avoidable mishaps are significantly up
in our region, including a few serious ones involving vehicles that occurred at national activities, but involved our people (so who knows where the 79 pops up).

You can make a legit case that whatever we're doing may not be working, but you can't make the case we don't need the training until the mishaps start coming down. They've been on a 45-degree angle of climb for about 3 years.

Short Field · July 25, 2011, 07:52:21 PM

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on July 22, 2011, 01:14:50 AM
Should national punish everyone for the inattention of a few? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

15 minutes a month? Punishment?

AirDX · July 25, 2011, 10:20:28 PM

Quote from: Eclipse on July 22, 2011, 03:22:41 AMYou can make a legit case that whatever we're doing may not be working, but you can't make the case we don't need the training until the mishaps start coming down. They've been on a 45-degree angle of climb for about 3 years.

I sat in a briefing by Col. Diduch and Mr. Jirik of NHQ safety last weekend - according to the stats they showed us incidents are down by 60% over the last three years, and even more impressive is the half million dollar decrease in expenditure for aircraft repair due to avoidable incidents.

The CAP mantra needs to not be "Safety First", but "Safety Always". The national safety group is working hard to change the safety culture in CAP, and what they are doing is meeting with measurable success. Complaining about a minimal monthly briefng requirement is not going to go very far in the face of it being a part of a successful program.