Kinda Random thought on CAp/Military Marriage

[mclarke]

I was just thinking while catching up on NCIS. As Senior Members in CAP we hold officer grades. Now, say someone is dating/married to a member of the military and that person is enlisted, see where I am going with this? I realize that CAP is a civilian organization so the UCMJ would not apply, although, I am thinking from a point of view from others who do not realize what CAP is. Thoughts? Experiences?

[SarDragon]

There are many married SM couples in CAP. In most cases there is no problem whatsoever because they tend to be very professional about it. My first squadron commander was married to the Admin Officer, and their two sons were in the unit, and there were zero problems, but this was back in the late '60s and early'70s, when attitudes were a bit different.

As for cadets dating, that's a very grey area, and I've seen little good come of many of these relationships. I've seen a few succeed, but it takes a lot of work. A lot.

PDA is verboten, as it it in the military. That is seldom an issue, IMHO. YMMV on that one.

[Pylon]

On top of what SarDragon said, and on top of the fact that the UCMJ has no bearing on CAP (and besides that most members of the public have no idea what the UCMJ is let alone what it stipulates), marriages do exist in the military between officer and enlisted.  If two servicemembers are married and one of them enters a commissioning program, the military isn't going to break up their marriage. 

[mclarke]

I guess at 2am I made no sense. Example is below.

John is married to Jane. John is a CAP 2nd Lt. Jane is a Sgt in the US Army. Both are adults. Obviously being CAP the UCMJ would not apply in any way. I guess what I am asking, is that with both being adults, one wearing officer grade insignia, the other enlisted active duty, what kind of experiences have you come across.

[EMT-83]

Waiting for jimmydeanno to chime in here...

[coudano]

lame jokes at the water cooler and dining outs
thats about it

[Hawk200]

Wouldn't be an issue. A simple explanation of what CAP is to one's supervisor if there were any questions would resolve any issues relating to a spouse who was an officer. That should be the highest level it should ever go.

There are marriages of officers and enlisted, and most of the time the people around either aren't even aware of it. A person bragging about an officer spouse is usually quietly counseled about it, and it doesn't go anywhere from there. A marriage of an enlisted military individual and a CAP officer wouldn't even garner a blink nowadays.

[mclarke]

I was not too worried about it being an issue. Was just an interesting thought. I guess if people know what CAP is yeah, then noone would blink.

[AirAux]

I knew an Academy grad (USAFA) 1Lt that was dating an Airman.  I asked him about it.  This was about 10 years ago.  He said it wasn't any big deal..  As usual, we in CAP have been led to believe in a higher standard than the real military in a lot of cases.     

[SARDOC]

I knew an Academy grad (USAFA) 1Lt that was dating an Airman.  I asked him about it.  This was about 10 years ago.  He said it wasn't any big deal..  As usual, we in CAP have been led to believe in a higher standard than the real military in a lot of cases.   

The only time I hear this even coming up as an issue is if both members were in the same command.  Even then it usually just ends up with both being transferred.  I haven't seen any UCMJ action on this...ever.

[Stonewall]

This seems like a good time to post my "don't get married so young in the military" speech I wrote to someone in 2005 who was 19 and wanting to get married as an E2 Airman in the Air Force...

-----------------------
Regarding marriage of young troops in the military, enlisted and officer...

First, look at the national divorce rate. I believe it is somewhere around 50% these days. That means that one out of every two couples will end up in divorce.

Look at your situation in the military. Your hours will vary as will your days off. Sure, some lucky blokes have a sweet 40-hour work week but the folks I'm talking about, my type of friends, aren't those kinds of people. You will deploy and spend as many as 6 months away from your spouse. In fact, you may do this 3 or 4 times the first 5 years in the military. Then there's the training; night time requirements, schools, and other odds and ends that pop up.

At my tech school in 2004 there was a 19 year old airman basic that was married. Got married right before leaving for BMT. She had been washed back in her training because her husband of 5 months cheated on her and got someone else pregnant back home so she was all flustered and couldn't concentrate on training. There was another guy who was 19 and engaged with a "big wedding" planned for a week after tech school. He got washed back and had to cancel the wedding. Three weeks went by and she broke up with him.

The fact that you are very young makes the odds of a successful marriage stacked against you. The other SSgt in my class was 25 and had been married for 4 years. His wife was 2 years younger. That means he was 21 and she was 19 when they got married. He decided since being at tech school that he's "ready to live again".

Not only does your age make it more difficult, mostly because your personalities will change more than you can imagine over the next 10 years, but your level of education means a lot when it comes to a successful marriage as well. If you and your girlfriend were both college graduates, your chances would be greater. But since you're just a high school graduate with zero life experience other than high school and being "on the block", you have no idea what obstacles are out there waiting to test you, beat you down and break you.

Is your girlfriend special to you? Of course. She may be the love of your life. But I'm 35 and remember when I graduated high school and was sure I was meant to be with my girlfriend (fiancée) for the rest of my life, even though I was leaving for the Army a month after graduation. Yes, we got engaged, mostly because I wanted her to stay with me. Then, I spent the next 6 months away from her with limited phone calls. I stressed out, she stressed out, but we made it. GREAT? Wrong. So she moves up to live with me. 6 months later, she's back home because it just wouldn't work. I had changed; she was used to being in college back home with her friends. I had a new life in the military and she couldn't comprehend that I worked long hours, could be called at a moments notice and had stressful days. The last thing I wanted to do was come home and be a husband with responsibilities to another person.

Will you probably still get married? Yes. It's hard to tell a teenager to do the smart thing when they're in love. But that's fine. 10 years from now you'll be saying the same thing I'm saying now.

My advice to you is this (take it or leave it because its free): If you really want to be an airman in the Air Force then do it because it's what you want to do. Don't join the Air Force as a means to support you and your future wife. The Air Force needs dedicated people to perform a very demanding and complex mission. If you want to be a part of the greatest aerospace fighting force in the world and are confident that you can be 100% airman and 100% dedicated/loving husband at the same time, then go for it. But know the answer to that question, don't guess. Imagine the hardest and most demanding situation and put you and your girlfriend in that situation together. Ask her, is she willing to take care of the finances, the apartment, kids (if any), and work some nasty job at the Wal-Mart off base trying to make extra money while you're off to Iraq, A-Stan, Korea, or some other nasty part of the world for 4 months to a year. Because that is a lot to ask a 19 or 20 year old young lady who is used to having the support of parents, friends and family.

Then, ask yourself this. Do you want to be sucking sand, working 14 hour days in the hot-ass desert, while your sexy hot wife is back on base with young studly airmen with nothing on their mind but partying and hooking up with hotties at the local clubs. Because, do you think your wife will sit at home watching TV every night? No, she'll be carrying on with her life while you're wringing out your t-shirt of sweat. You'll get a chance to call her and she won't answer because she's out with girlfriends living it up. And do you blame her? I wouldn't. I'd be doing the same thing.

Thank me or hate me. But think about this when making decisions that will not only affect your life, but that of someone you love. You owe it to both of you.

Your friendly Air Force marriage advisor...

[jimmydeanno]

Waiting for jimmydeanno to chime in here...

I'm not sure that my situation applies anymore because my wife is an officer now. 

My wife used to be enlisted and was actually highlighted by her unit because she was a "CAP Officer."  Apparently, some of her coworkers thought it strange/interesting.

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123009582

In the practical reality of the situation, we've never had anyone give it a second thought.  We're both very active in CAP.  But, because of the rules regarding when we can wear our CAP uniform, there hasn't been a single situation in which she's been in her Air Force uniform and I've been in my CAP uniform at the same time.  Either she'll be in her uniform on base and I'll be in civilian clothing, or we'll both be in CAP uniform.

I think the bigger question marks we get involve showing IDs at the gate to the bases in CAP uniform.  She gets weird looks showing her CAC that says 2d Lt while wearing CAP Major uniform, and I'll get weird looks for being a civilian showing a dependent ID wearing CAP Major.

We have a few friends that are enlisted/officer spouses.  Both were enlisted when they married and one got commissioned.  It's not a big deal, because people know how stuff works.  Even stranger, though, is a new guy to our CAP unit who is in the Air Force, but his (soon-to-be) wife is in the Navy stationed 1,800 miles away.

My wife and I met in CAP as cadets at encampment.  We dated about 8 months and got married, while she was in Tech School.  We've been married over 8 years now and we're still going strong.  Being married young and to a military member isn't that bad.  I think it depends on the way you look at your situation.  I think we both have very realistic views on our marriage.

I tell my people all the time, "People change.  You can't expect them not to.  If they don't, they aren't living to their potential.  From there, it's just deciding whether or not you can accept the change."

[davidsinn]

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123009582

That is a really cool picture they took of her.

[jimmydeanno]

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123009582

That is a really cool picture they took of her.

She wasn't too thrilled about it, actually.  She thought the article was going to be for the squadron's newsletter or something.  One day, it was on the front page of af.mil!  It was a neat idea though, and I'm glad they ran the article.

[Eclipse]

I think the bigger question marks we get involve showing IDs at the gate to the bases in CAP uniform.  She gets weird looks showing her CAC that says 2d Lt while wearing CAP Major uniform, and I'll get weird looks for being a civilian showing a dependent ID wearing CAP Major.

Um...then use your CAP ID's for access?

[jimmydeanno]

I think the bigger question marks we get involve showing IDs at the gate to the bases in CAP uniform.  She gets weird looks showing her CAC that says 2d Lt while wearing CAP Major uniform, and I'll get weird looks for being a civilian showing a dependent ID wearing CAP Major.

Um...then use your CAP ID's for access?

They don't give us a hard time, just raises their eyebrows.  CAPIDs take WAAAAY to long to get through.  They take the ID and Driver's License, go into the shack, call the security forces desk, compare our names to the list they have, come back out, ask a few questions about what we're doing, and let us through.

[Eclipse]

Ugh...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

It's not even an issue, other than maybe one of appearances, which can be explained quite easily: the CAP officer appears to be a military officer, but is not.

When I think of such an issue, I think of Lieutenant Kelly Flinn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Flinn

In that case, Lieutenant Flinn basically shot her CC the bird when he ordered her to stay away from the married husband of a female NCO at Minot AFB.

In CAP, what you do on your own time is your own business, as long as you're not doing anything illegal or against CAP regulations, or casting CAP and/or the Air Force in a negative light.

The issue of officer/enlisted relationships is one of "good order and discipline," chain of command issues, etc., which is why the UCMJ covers it...and CAP is not covered by the UCMJ.

jimmydeano: That is a cool pic of your other half.  Hopefully she's able to keep her two different sets of uniforms, insignia and ribbons straight.

[Hawk200]

It's not even an issue, other than maybe one of appearances, which can be explained quite easily: the CAP officer appears to be a military officer, but is not.

When I think of such an issue, I think of Lieutenant Kelly Flinn:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Flinn

In that case, Lieutenant Flinn basically shot her CC the bird when he ordered her to stay away from the married husband of a female NCO at Minot AFB.

I remember that. Was still in Alaska at the time, and was doing an AFJROTC encampment. We had a female lieutenant about the same age as Kelly Flinn. I asked her what her thoughts were. I was a little surprised by the lieutenant's vehement response: "That b---- got off easy!"

Fortunately, there were no cadets around, and the LT looked around, suitably embarrassed, after her outburst to see if any of them had heard her. She cooled down, but it was obvious that she felt Flinn thought of herself as some type of superstar that was above the rules, and that Flinn had probably done more damage to women in the military in general because of her actions(she didn't explain how).

And the woman who's husband Flinn dated was actually an airman.

[ol'fido]

Not really related but.... Just before I ETSed we had a bunch of "cherries" get transferred in from Benning. One of them, just made E-2, showed up at the company one day with this woman. One of the sergeants pulled him aside and wanted to know "Did you bring your mother to Hawaii with you." because the E-2 was 19 and the woman was in her late 30's or 40's. Think Berta from "Two and A Half Men". No, that was his wife. He also had 4 stepkids one of whom was just 2 years younger. Your making 1992 rate E-2 pay, you are in the highly expensive state of Hawaii, you are 19, and have a wife and 4 kids to support.