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Author Topic: Civil Air Patrol As Well As Federal Government to Close Down!  (Read 19465 times)
RADIOMAN015
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« on: March 25, 2011, 06:00:38 PM »

Interestingly the latest newsletter from the Military Officers Association of America is stating that if the budget is not approved or continued on April 8th, 2011, the government will have to shut down.  Apparently there's concern even about the pay of active as well as retired military personnel and their survivors.   Also civilian pay will stop.  Apparently on the civilian side, everyone will be out of work.  The military will continue to work without pay.

Now from a Civil Air Patrol standpoint, as many of you already know, most wings have not had any large scale typical SAREX/DR exercises unless associated with an AF inspections.  So we are already hurting.

IF we get a mission when the government funding is shut off, who knows if we will every get reimbursed for it.
I guess IF congress doesn't pass a continuing resolution, I definitely won't have any interest in any CAP missions until I can be assured of reimbursement.  Oh, maybe I can call my local congressman and he can take some money out of his campaign funds.

Not very good news to motivate anyone in the government or associated with the government at this time!
RM 
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Eclipse
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2011, 06:08:49 PM »

I definitely won't have any interest in any CAP missions until I can be assured of reimbursement. 

I'm sure we are all shocked that your first concern regarding a mission is reimbursement.

The government does not "shut down" - people pre-identified as essential personnel will continue to be paid and work.  This is mostly political posturing
and it won't last more than a day or two at most. 

The fact that some groups are getting worried about it means the posturing is working.

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davedove
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2011, 06:35:23 PM »

The last time this happened, back in the 90's, even with the shutdown the military winds up being excluded, including civilians.  That time, civilians were furloughed for a couple of days before everyone decided we just can't do that with DoD.

What is likely to happen is that another (and another, and another) continuing resolution will be passed for another couple of weeks while they continue their posturing.  It's all political games.  The vast majority of spending everyone agrees on, but they hold that up to fight over the small stuff.  This is your government at work.
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David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
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RADIOMAN015
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2011, 06:41:09 PM »

I definitely won't have any interest in any CAP missions until I can be assured of reimbursement. 

I'm sure we are all shocked that your first concern regarding a mission is reimbursement.

The government does not "shut down" - people pre-identified as essential personnel will continue to be paid and work.  This is mostly political posturing
and it won't last more than a day or two at most. 

The fact that some groups are getting worried about it means the posturing is working.
I don't think anyone gets paid unless the bill has a retroactive provision in it.  You are correct about emergency essential employees, but that's really a small number overall in comparison to the total number of federal employees.   

CAP overall mission proficiency has been affected by the current budget approval problems -- Our wing has not had ANY SAREX/DR exercises since the beginning of the fiscal year involving aircraft.  I don't see pilots & air crews running to pay their own money to run an exercise (yet on the ground side they are talking about an exercise without any funding --- get real >:(   Put an airplane up with those members paying for its' operation and I might get motivated to spend some of my hard earned money, otherwise, I don't have much motivation to participate :(
RM

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N Harmon
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2011, 06:42:38 PM »

I have had two cadets quit with the reasons partially being a lack of o-flights. These budgetary games do have an effect on us at a unit level.
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NATHAN A. HARMON, Capt, CAP
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Larry Mangum
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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2011, 06:44:15 PM »

That's interesting, as when I was part of MAWG, the wing only funded a couple of SAREX's a year. If you wanted GT or aircrew training, you paid for it out of your own pocket and guess what? The people who had rating actually participated in missions as they had skin in the game. Can you say as much now?
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Larry Mangum, Lt Col CAP
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2011, 07:01:49 PM »

Wings not running SAREx's has little to do with the funding issues, unless you can show me where they were already on the calendar and planned
and then canceled because of no money, which is silly, since the majority of operations can be performed with no funding.

As to O-Rides, yes, there were some issues early in the fiscal year, but somehow my region and wing was able to come up with money, and we
are back to status quo - scheduled, funded rides with little to no interest by the cadets.

While I have no doubt your cadets cited it as an excuse reason, I seriously doubt too many cadets really quit because of a few missed rides.  If that is
all they are in CAP for, they are missing the point.
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Major Carrales
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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2011, 07:14:23 PM »

I have had two cadets quit with the reasons partially being a lack of o-flights. These budgetary games do have an effect on us at a unit level.

They were in it for the wrong reasons...visit some other forums and read how some former "5'ers" (as per the 5 O-Flights) bash CAP and the cadet program.  Especially I recall reading one where a cadet bragged (in my opinion) about giving some cadet officer and hard time purposely disrespecting other CAP people.

Youth  don't join CAP for O-Flights alone...there is an OATH taken. 

As per exercises...we often have, in Texas, many an unfunded exercise that, I suppose, the hard core CAP members (those that really enjoy CAP and don't mine spending what it takes to get training opptunities) don't mind self funding.

In reality, I don't think I have ever asked for reimbursement for any travel time, ELT missions of the like.  Fingured it be a donation...that being my choice.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 07:19:06 PM by Major Carrales » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2011, 07:21:46 PM »

I have had two cadets quit with the reasons partially being a lack of o-flights. These budgetary games do have an effect on us at a unit level.

Wow. They only get 5 to begin with right?  Talk about impatient.  "No O-Flights this month?  Im quitting."
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Eclipse
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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2011, 07:35:51 PM »

Correct, 5 powered and 5 glider. They can also do all the back seat or "99" rides as are available.

I've had this discussion before here and elsewhere - kids today simply aren't as impressed with aviation as a whole, and once you've
been in a Cessna a couple of times, you either love it and want more, or it's just another vehicle.

I would say this is both the curse and success of aviation and aerospace in general - that which becomes commonplace is no longer exciting.
I'm sure when we get matter transport and warp drive to work, the first ones through will be very excited about it, but after a couple of
years its just the bus.

Why do you think space launches are page 2 news?
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a2capt
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2011, 07:40:55 PM »

On the positive side, the last time this happened .. the national park admissions were free. No one was there to staff the booth.

Seriously.

Why am I not surprised RMs' first concern is reimbursement, either.

Oh, and if anything, pay is retroactive. you don't loose it. Quit buying all this political posturing.
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jimmydeanno
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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2011, 07:46:13 PM »

A lot of cadets quit because there isn't anything aviation related in their "Aviation Cadet Program."  Cadets join because they want to learn about leadership in an aerospace oriented environment.  You recruit cadets, you tell them and their parents that we'll take them flying, for free, a few times and after a year they still haven't ever been in an airplane.  That is a failure on our part, not theirs. 

The O-Flight program is supposed to be a benefit of membership and something that keeps them interested in aviation.  If they aren't flying, we aren't providing the benefits we say we provide.

Exit surveys of cadets indicate that they quit because of (in no particular order):

1) Not enough flying
2) Lack of local leadership
3) Not enough activities in general.
4) Doing the same thing at every meeting (i.e. drilling for 1.5 hours each night)

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jimmydeanno
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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2011, 07:49:42 PM »

Oh yeah, government shutdown...

Those Congress Critters are doing all this posturing to try to eliminate like 1% of the budget.  Those that aren't going to get their paychecks, if there is a shutdown, are the employees that probably can't afford a delay in their paycheck in the first place - since they aren't "essential personnel" anyway.
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N Harmon
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« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2011, 08:01:52 PM »

Most years we try to keep the activity level up in the winter months by doing o-flights.  Usually that and all of the preparation/execution for Wreaths Across America get us through.  Had we known that funding would have been delayed as it was this year, we probably would have looked elsewhere for activities.  For that I take responsibility. It won't happen again.

Some of you seem to think I was saying the lack of o-flights is what prompted these cadets to quit, when that wasn't what I wrote at all. It was a contributing factor to our unit's lack of activity.
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NATHAN A. HARMON, Capt, CAP
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« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2011, 08:14:44 PM »

I have had two cadets quit with the reasons partially being a lack of o-flights. These budgetary games do have an effect on us at a unit level.


They only get 5 front seat powered rides through their entire cadet career.  The total program is sufficient to keep cadets engaged when properly run.  O-Flights are just an icing on the proverbial cake.
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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
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« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2011, 08:50:39 PM »

I spent 25 years in the FAA, and we did this dance every few years.  I only remember one occasion where some nonessential personnel took a day or two off, and the pay was restored to them.  Now I've been pulled out of retirement to work for DoD, it's the same story all over again.  Don't panic (or attempt to incite panic).

As far as a lack of wing-wide exercises, that sounds like a local problem.  We had one last fall, and we flew one in February in preparation for the GTE that happens tomorrow.  The GTE's been scaled back to a single day due to the tsunami DR mission we flew two weeks ago.  We're a small wing.  YMMV
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RADIOMAN015
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« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2011, 08:54:51 PM »

Wings not running SAREx's has little to do with the funding issues, unless you can show me where they were already on the calendar and planned
and then canceled because of no money, which is silly, since the majority of operations can be performed with no funding.
We have no annual SAREX schedule published in the wing at this time due to funding issues.  I have two wing wide exercises in the pre planning phase and have not been asked to go forward with the final plans and putting it into WMIRS at this time.   NO one is interested in paying for flying or for paying large amount of money to transport ground teams in the squadron vans with NO potential for reimbursement.  It isn't going to happen, period :-[
RM

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Larry Mangum
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« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2011, 09:03:31 PM »

RM, where you planning those SAREX's in conjunction with the WING DOS or free lancing on your own? Arn't you in MAWG?
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Larry Mangum, Lt Col CAP
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« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2011, 09:17:27 PM »

NO one is interested in paying for flying or for paying large amount of money to transport ground teams in the squadron vans with NO potential for reimbursement.

And now you speak for your entire wing?
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Major Lord
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« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2011, 09:32:03 PM »

I think the most [darn]ing thing about a Govt shutdown is how few people would notice. The revenues of the Federal Government are sufficient to continue funding treasury obligations and "critical" federal employees ( Note: All of them, in the Govt's opinion) pretty much ad infinitum. If the Rural Electrification Committee or the Avocado Advisory board goes unfunded, I don't think we will have Libya-level riots.

Major Lord
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: Civil Air Patrol As Well As Federal Government to Close Down!
 


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