Former cadet interested in joining as senior. Needs quality advice.

[fmrcadetpilot]

I'm a former cadet.  CAP used to be my life but I left for a variety of reasons.  Since leaving the program I have continued to pursue my passion for aviation, earning a solo certificate.  I'm currently almost done with my private license.  I am looking for some advice from a seasoned senior member.  I just have this urge to get back in and I want to know what I'm up against.  To be honest I'm not really interested in the cadet program side of CAP any longer, just the senior member aviation part. 

Is there a senior member with 15+ years experience who is familiar with the aviation side of the program, and is willing to give it to me straight and off the record?  I'd love to correspond.  Thanks!

[a2capt]

Straight and off the record .. preferably in your locality otherwise it may all not be anything the same. Particulary with regards to units who do not have a corporate aircraft on their books in southern California, at least - forget it. Flying someone "elses" (yes I know they're CAP assets), is usually rife with politics and 'procedures', and they have all but chased away the use of member owned aircraft.

[NIN]

I'm a former cadet.  CAP used to be my life but I left for a variety of reasons.  Since leaving the program I have continued to pursue my passion for aviation, earning a solo certificate.  I'm currently almost done with my private license.  I am looking for some advice from a seasoned senior member.  I just have this urge to get back in and I want to know what I'm up against.  To be honest I'm not really interested in the cadet program side of CAP any longer, just the senior member aviation part. 

Is there a senior member with 15+ years experience who is familiar with the aviation side of the program, and is willing to give it to me straight and off the record?  I'd love to correspond.  Thanks!

Hit me up. I spent 20+ years as a senior (6 as a cadet) and while I was not a pilot, I have been a squadron commander in a unit with aircraft assigned.

And what a2capt said is utterly true: every place is a little different, things vary by wing and then by location within the wing, and sometimes the "winds of aircraft fortune" change.   There are very subtle (and sometimes, not so subtle) politics involved in things like aircraft assignment and such.  You'd think it would be based on things like flying hours,  who is qualified to fly what, and improving mission capability.  In fairly un-enlightened places, its almost never those kinds of factors.

Example: my state was heavily ops-centric, and my unit was co-located with the Wing HQ.   You would think that we'd get a plane to keep at the centrally-located Wing HQ airport? No.  Tried for YEARS to get a plane.  YEARS.   For the longest time, the "flying club" squadron in the southern part of the state usually kept at least two of the wing's planes there, and usually the GA-8 or region 206.  That started to change after awhile, when my unit's ops-O (a commercial jet pilot, CFII, factory-certified glass cockpit/FMS guy, former Dornier/Fairchild test pilot, etc) demonstrated that not only could we fly a plane, but that we could fly a plane with squadron-only assets 40-60% more hours per month than the other units.

They'd come scarf our 172 for "training" or it would go to the flying club's FBO for "maintenance" and stay for "new pilot checkouts" for a month or two.  IIRC, at the time the wing-wide flying hour need was something like 16 hrs a month for the aircraft to reach the 200-hrs/yr/airframe goal.  The other aircraft-assigned unit commanders would stand up at commander's call and report numbers like "2.5 hours" or "6 hours."  I stood up one month and said "Our aircraft flew 26.5 this month" and there was an audible gasp in the room.  The Ops guy keeping the flying hour numbers said "That can't be right!" and started flipping thru his reports.  Sure enough, we'd actually flown like 27 or 28 hrs, and oh, look, the aircraft was away for maintenance for part of that, too.

(they started rotating the aircraft thru my unit to get flying hours on them after that, but we didn't have a large contingent of 182 pilots, so that fell flat pretty quick..)

Suffice to say, there is a lot more to flying CAP planes than pitch, power and airspeed.

[Ron1319]

It totally depends on where you are and what the unit is like.  I've been a part of two squadrons with planes that had lots and lots of practice mission and real mission sorties happening all of the time.  There was great opportunity in that squadron to participate actively in aviation as a senior member.  There is another squadron here in the Sacramento area where the plane is flying almost daily.  You just have to find the right unit.  Don't let a couple of members ruined by California senior member political garbage deter you from joining.

[flyboy53]

I'm a former cadet.  CAP used to be my life but I left for a variety of reasons.  Since leaving the program I have continued to pursue my passion for aviation, earning a solo certificate.  I'm currently almost done with my private license.  I am looking for some advice from a seasoned senior member.  I just have this urge to get back in and I want to know what I'm up against.  To be honest I'm not really interested in the cadet program side of CAP any longer, just the senior member aviation part. 

Is there a senior member with 15+ years experience who is familiar with the aviation side of the program, and is willing to give it to me straight and off the record?  I'd love to correspond.  Thanks!

Hit me up. I spent 20+ years as a senior (6 as a cadet) and while I was not a pilot, I have been a squadron commander in a unit with aircraft assigned.

And what a2capt said is utterly true: every place is a little different, things vary by wing and then by location within the wing, and sometimes the "winds of aircraft fortune" change.   There are very subtle (and sometimes, not so subtle) politics involved in things like aircraft assignment and such.  You'd think it would be based on things like flying hours,  who is qualified to fly what, and improving mission capability.  In fairly un-enlightened places, its almost never those kinds of factors.

Example: my state was heavily ops-centric, and my unit was co-located with the Wing HQ.   You would think that we'd get a plane to keep at the centrally-located Wing HQ airport? No.  Tried for YEARS to get a plane.  YEARS.   For the longest time, the "flying club" squadron in the southern part of the state usually kept at least two of the wing's planes there, and usually the GA-8 or region 206.  That started to change after awhile, when my unit's ops-O (a commercial jet pilot, CFII, factory-certified glass cockpit/FMS guy, former Dornier/Fairchild test pilot, etc) demonstrated that not only could we fly a plane, but that we could fly a plane with squadron-only assets 40-60% more hours per month than the other units.

They'd come scarf our 172 for "training" or it would go to the flying club's FBO for "maintenance" and stay for "new pilot checkouts" for a month or two.  IIRC, at the time the wing-wide flying hour need was something like 16 hrs a month for the aircraft to reach the 200-hrs/yr/airframe goal.  The other aircraft-assigned unit commanders would stand up at commander's call and report numbers like "2.5 hours" or "6 hours."  I stood up one month and said "Our aircraft flew 26.5 this month" and there was an audible gasp in the room.  The Ops guy keeping the flying hour numbers said "That can't be right!" and started flipping thru his reports.  Sure enough, we'd actually flown like 27 or 28 hrs, and oh, look, the aircraft was away for maintenance for part of that, too.

(they started rotating the aircraft thru my unit to get flying hours on them after that, but we didn't have a large contingent of 182 pilots, so that fell flat pretty quick..)

Suffice to say, there is a lot more to flying CAP planes than pitch, power and airspeed.

That sounds so much like the New York Wing that it HURTS! Then they wonder why you lose pilots!

I'm compelled to give you some further advice. If you have only soloed, I would recommend training as an observer first and then pursing the flight training to private separately. There are some initial aspects of the training that all aircrew members do and then you split off into your repective duties. Using a CAP aircraft to complete flight training is possible but highly unlikely unless you know a CFI on the CAP side that is willing to do it with you.

That said, there are other issues. Once you earn your private pilot's license, you will have to accumulate a number of hours before you will be able to do things like cadet orientations and SAR. Then you have to be checked out and certified before you can do it. Also, many wings have as many as four to six different types of aircraft, which is actually a safety issue, but some of the cool stuff is only centered around the flying clubs.

There are other factors that may control how much flying you get to to do. A lack of funding means nothing for orientation flights or SAREXs, so you end up doing things like table top exercises. If the aircraft is geographically separated from your unit, be prepared to travel long distances and only get to to use it at inconvient times.

I was always told that using the CAP aircraft was cheaper and there seems to be a lot of interest in getting people to pay for their own flying. But I also know that there are a lot of FBOs out there that are willing to compete with CAP on that aspect....and you end up with an aircraft with less red tape and hassle.

I would, however, ask you to pursue your concerns futher with the unit you are intending to join so that there isn't any regret once you've turned over the check.

[SunDog]

Some pros and the cons, and they vary by wing and sqdn:

Pro's:
Pretty well maintained aircraft, though the 172's often lack IFR GPS's; but generally nicer aircraft that the typical FBO 172. The 182's are very nice - personally, I think 182's handle like pigs; but my prejudice aside, if you like 182's, you might find a glass cockpit equipped sqdn near you, if that's your interest.

CAP C17 flying is probably cheaper than almost any FBO, unless you join a military flying club. Oddly enough, being a CAP member may qualify you for membership in a military club. They often also accept police, fire fighters, gov't employees, etc.

Once you make it to mission pilot, you might get to do some meaningful flying. Same when you make observer.

Flying with other pilots! Always a good thing, and you spend a lot of time with another CAP pilot in the plane with you. CAP CRM is a good thing.

Cons:
Don't bother with a sqdn that doesn't "own" an airplane. Those sqdns pilot's are orphans.

Soul-sucking bureacracy; it can take  5 - 6 web site visits, half a dozen phone calls, and multiple emails to get one flight off the ground and closed out. The 'automated' systems for flight releases, scheduling, etc., are a clumsy, unintegrated mess.

Check-rides; some wings are chronically short of Form 5 and Form 91 check pilots. (Form 91 is for mission pilot). Between weather, aircraft availability, and tracking down a check pilot, it can take many weeks to get a check ride in.

Time consuming, pointless, counter-productive "saftey" squares to fill. CAP does CYA safety, and it'll suck up your time without adding any real value to your knowledge base about safety. You gotta fill the squares, even if the time would be better spent on the AOPA or FAA courses.

Grim politics - each wing is a little fiefdom; sometimes they are well managed. Sometimes not; favortism is routine, in distribution of aircraft, funded flying hours, and mission assignments. Either join the clique, tolerate the nonsense, or move on.

Shop around - even between wings, if that's geographically possible for you. My wing seems to keep it's aircraft in good shape, for example. Some don't - we got one from NY a couple of years ago that NEVER had a GPS database update. No panel lights worked, etc. Nobody in our wing flew it more than once, unless they had to. It was useless for SAR flying. It went away, eventually.

Have other options - your sqdn's airplane could get jerked with no warning; maybe for a month, or a summer, or forever. I flew CAP when it was funded, and fly with a militray aero-club when I'm paying for it.

[tsrup]

I may not be 15 years as a senior member,
but my situation is similar to yours.  Former cadet, became senior member, primarily interested in Aviation. 

I started my transition to Senior when I was 20 (with my PPL and instrument under my belt) at a squadron without an aircraft.  I did want to do missions on the aircrew side of things so I started off getting my ducks in a row for Mission Scanner, then Eventually MO (since I don't meet the 200hrs PIC requirement).  Being aircrew outside of being the Mission Pilot has been very rewarding for me, and I feel like it will only prepare me later on for when I do take my 91 ride. 

Some caveats for your position though:

You will not be able to receive instruction toward your PPL in CAP aircraft.
You will not be able to receive follow on instruction in CAP aircraft unless you are a Mission Pilot (need 200hrs PIC) or you have been a Senior Member for 1 year. 
There are some exceptions to these, however, they are in my experience, uncommon.

It is important also to realize that CAP is not a flying club.  Be prepared to take on an additional billet at the squadron depending on what their needs are. 
It's also sad sometimes how few members with wings are present at things like encampment or competitions.  Remember CAP does have 3 missions, and Cadet Programs is one of them.