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Author Topic: 'trenches' at ES school?  (Read 7003 times)
ElectricPenguin
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« on: January 24, 2011, 01:51:34 AM »

Someone brought this up within our squadron, (today was a dsarex) at ES schools (don't ask for specifics, I'm kinda new at ES. This week I has my first sarex and it was terrable, plane lead us to a gated community.) Do you really have to dig a trench and "do" your buisness there when others are next to you? Isn't this a little to much? (Yes I know that military does this, but we arnt military.) This was all just in my head so I decided to post it. Besides I know others are thinking about it.
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ElectricPenguin
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2011, 01:56:53 AM »

you know, scrach the "at es school". This thread referes to missions too.
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cap235629
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2011, 02:00:28 AM »

look at your task guide.

Yes field sanitation and hygiene is in there
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Bill Hobbs, Major, CAP
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manfredvonrichthofen
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2011, 02:06:44 AM »

Cap23, you hit what I was thinking on the head. The thing to realize, is yes, field san is most likely what this was for. The three Fs of field sanitation are food, flies, and feces, food and feces both attract flies greatly and one of the best ways to keep all three from touching each other is to keep a "slit trench". This will keep everyone using the latrine in one area well away from where you eat and sleep keeping everyone healthy.  Granted other than the occasional Bivouac you would never use a slit trench, but it is still a good thing to know, because once the area gets  laden with flies, just fill the slit trench wait an hour for the flies to disperse, and dig a new one elsewhere.
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cap235629
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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2011, 02:14:40 AM »

we teach cat holes and slit trenches
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Bill Hobbs, Major, CAP
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ElectricPenguin
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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2011, 02:22:21 AM »

look at your task guide.

Yes field sanitation and hygiene is in there

... there are like 300 pages in there...  But I think I mixed things together to much, what I meant to ask was, what if someone had to do a #2? (Assuming I know wha a 2 is.). This would make a more then akwerd moment if someone else had to go.
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cap235629
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« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2011, 02:32:18 AM »

so take turns, this isn't that difficult
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Bill Hobbs, Major, CAP
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ElectricPenguin
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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2011, 02:34:36 AM »

so take turns, this isn't that difficult


Ah, that's what my mother said when we rented our new house. Proven wrong.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2011, 02:38:20 AM »

The odds that you will ever need to do this in a CAP context (outside the initial tasking) approach zero.

Read the manual, fulfill the requirement to the satisfaction of the evaluator, and never think of it again.
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coudano
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« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2011, 02:46:45 AM »

we teach it, and test upon it (academically)
but nobody actually ever puts an e-tool in the ground.

They don't at NESA either.
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cap235629
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« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2011, 02:49:01 AM »

we teach it, and test upon it (academically)
but nobody actually ever puts an e-tool in the ground.

They don't at NESA either.

we actually dig and USE them on  bivouac
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Bill Hobbs, Major, CAP
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ElectricPenguin
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« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2011, 03:32:05 AM »

we teach it, and test upon it (academically)
but nobody actually ever puts an e-tool in the ground.

They don't at NESA either.

we actually dig and USE them on  bivouac

Learn something new everyday.
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davidsinn
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« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2011, 03:33:23 AM »

we teach it, and test upon it (academically)
but nobody actually ever puts an e-tool in the ground.

They don't at NESA either.

we actually dig and USE them on  bivouac

Learn something new everyday.

Well, how else are you supposed to take care of business in the woods?
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David Sinn
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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2011, 03:59:07 AM »

Quote from: davidsinn
Well, how else are you supposed to take care of business in the woods?

Standard issue reply with us Boy Scout types:

"There's a tree over there with your name on it, take enough toilet paper to cover the damage."
  >:D
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Eclipse
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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2011, 04:14:33 AM »

Well, how else are you supposed to take care of business in the woods?

I generally use the toilet.  By far the majority of CAP activities take place in campgrounds and other recreational areas
that have some level of facilities, and most of these places will ask you to leave if you start pooping in little holes all over the place.

Real-world missions have facilities and infrastructure to support the bio-needs of the ES assets.

This is one of those "basic survival" skills which is a nice-to-have in a 1% situation, but will never be needed by the average member
during a mission.
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coudano
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2011, 04:21:29 AM »

I'm going to agree, 99% of the time on a actual or practice ES mission, you better not be too far out of range of a toilet, or else someone is making questionable decisions about the deployment and employment of their ground resources.

Even at long duration 'camping/bivouac' style actual ES missions lately, there were toilets, at the very least portapotties.

Of course sometimes nature calls at inconvenient times, and I think you would respond the same way you would in a non-ES situation (say you were out for a day hike on your own time).  No need for special training and evaluation there, imho.


Basically, the ground team qual, when GTM3, 2, and 1, were all just plain ole GTM, contained a bunch of wilderness survival stuff that got stripped out (ropse, expedient shelters, staying overnight outdoors, and so on).  It got stripped out specifically because, while the outdoor skills are 'cool' they are not required as a practical matter, for CAP to conduct the vast majority of standard ground search ops.


Now if you wanna go on a biv, for fun, that's a different story from training for qualification as a GTM.
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Major Lord
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« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2011, 02:07:22 PM »

Curiously enough, there is a book on the subject: " How to S**t in the Woods" by Kathleen Meyer. Although the subject won't come up publicly too often, its not uncommon for Cadets to have a dread fear of using shared restroom facilities. BCS, Encampments, etc, often have a kid show up sick for this very reason, and too embarrassed to say anything about it. If they are afraid of spotless military heads, they are probably afraid of open air slit trenches. Its better to find out in advance and give a subtle warning to Cadets ( and some Seniors) about what conditions will be like. Bedwetting and Constipation are something most medical people have had to counsel kids on before a total melt down occurs.

Major Lord
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"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."
Nathan
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« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2011, 08:27:18 PM »

we teach it, and test upon it (academically)
but nobody actually ever puts an e-tool in the ground.

They don't at NESA either.

Erm, really? During the basic course, we definitely were out in the woods for a few days, and there were no toilets in sight the entire time. Our team dug a small trench an appropriate distance from our campsite, and that's what we used. And I used my e-tool from my gear to dig it myself.

As for the practicality if ever actually using something other than a toilet, remember that a pretty good portion of the GTM skills are based more around survival than any regular SAR mission I've ever been on. I've never had to set up a fire, or even a tent on a mission. I've never had to figure out which plants I could eat, use a signal mirror, or tie almost any of the knots I've learned to tie. Most missions involved me riding around in a van to an airport.

But if I was ever in a survival situation, mass casualty incident, or some sort of natural disaster situation, I would definitely be happy to have all of those skills. And I would probably not have time or ability to ruck it to a McDonald's to potty.

So on that note, I would actually advocate that learning proper field hygeine is one of the most IMPORTANT things that people can learn, and that an ES school would be doing the students a disservice by not teaching them based on the uncomfortable factor invovled. By the middle of the week of NESA, my BDU's were so soaked in sweat that I was pouring water from my canteen on them just to psychologically tell myself every morning that the cold wetness could just be the water. Any situation where a field toilet is necessary is not one in which you're going to be too worried about dignity...
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 08:30:36 PM by Nathan » Report to moderator   Logged
Nathan Scalia

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Major Lord
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« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2011, 09:54:46 PM »

"Any situation where a field toilet is necessary is not one in which you're going to be too worried about dignity..."

Well said! I think you must be Paraphrasing Pliny the Elder....

Major Lord
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"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."
commando1
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« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2011, 10:03:17 PM »

 On that same line of thought make sure you ALWAYS have toilet paper handy. Once went on a SAREX where the GTL was the only one with TP.   :-[
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: 'trenches' at ES school?
 


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