Ground Teams in California

[PHall]

Want to know why CAP doesn't do much GT activity in California?
Here's what we're up against.     www.code2high.com/lasd_search.htm
And per state law, the Sheriff of each county is in charge of all SAR activity in their county.
CAP operates at their pleasure while in their county.

[RiverAux]

Nothing new there.  Sheriffs are almost always the ones in control of GSAR everywhere in the country.  That doesn't keep CAP from developing good working relationships and being involved in SAR in other states.  California seems to be about the only state where there seems to be a real ongoing problem.   

[PA Guy]

Not problems probably in the sense you mean.

The "problem" is that many of the sheriff's have their own GSAR teams with fairly big budgets that have vehicles, fixed/rotary wing aircraft and other resources that CAP can only dream about.  They also have very high training standards. So why should they rely on a group that may or may not show up with adequately trained people that they don't own? Not to mention justifying their budget request to the county board of supervisors. Most CAP GSAR teams just aren't trained or equipped to tackle many of the GSAR missions, particularly the high altitude winter missing person searches.

Many of the SDs will use CAP for scut work GSAR assignments and some will ask for CAP assistance in electronic search.

[PHall]

The majority of the Sheriff Department Search and Rescue Teams are made up of Reserve Deputies who are paid $1 a year.
They have a few full time Regular Deputies handle the day to day stuff, but the majority of the team members are volunteers.

[PA Guy]

I was referring to the purchase and maint. of vehicles, equipment, training costs etc. Yes, personnel costs are minimal. But even a Level III res. deputy must still go through the same processing as a reg. deputy which includes physical, psych, background etc. Some counties will now allow applicants who aren't interested in being a reserve deputy to join as a citizen volunteer.

[bosshawk]

In my county, the SO has a large volunteer SAR team which is better trained and equipped than any of the CAP Sqs within driving distance.  In fact, the nearest CAP Sq is 50 miles away and has absolutely no GT capability.  The next CAP Sq is 85 miles away and has no GT capability: both have aircraft which are never requested by the SO.  When aircraft are needed, the Highway Patrol helicopter is the first choice and several Sheriff's fixed wing planes are second choice.

The SOs know that CAP is available and they know how to request them: the SO simply prefers to use their own LE resources.  The LE resources can respond in a time frame of immediately to an hour: CAP would probably take something on the order of a day or two to show up.

CAWG does a miserable job of forming and training Ground Teams.  In fact, within 100 miles, I don't know of a single GT.  I suspect that part of the reason for this is that GT is not sexy, it is hard work, the terrain is usually miserable and probably some other reasons.  We are lucky to get a UDF team once in awhile.

[PHall]

The lack of demand is a big reason why we don't have that many ground teams in California.
We lose a bunch of people every year because people join CAP, do a bunch of training to get qualified and then never get called.

[N Harmon]

So it seems like a circular problem. You don't have enough ground assets because the demand for them is low, and the demand for them is low because you don't have enough.

So how do we fix that?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

That does sound like a problem. I guess you could try to use the fact that most of their personnel is volunteer already and they could save even more in training them by using CAP. Then you would ruffle a bunch of feathers in the volunteer sheriff community, though I don't imagine that is really that many feathers. Although isn't most of the areas to get lost in California regulated and patrolled by employee security already? I am not positive about that, but if so then there would be another problem with having CAP do GSAR in CAWG. I think the best thing you could do about that is let your people know that you are trying to fix the problem and console them a bit, and try to talk with the sheriffs and the police around you and prove to them that you are a valuable asset to them, it may even take a couple of evaluation missions to get them into your court. It will take time, effort, and some scratched backs.

[a2capt]

There's GoB networks that 'control' a lot of it, and politics that allow it to continue to fester. IOW, it could be said that certain aspects of ES are the best recruitment tool that CP has in CAWG.

People join and rather than say forget it, they find other parts of the organization to contribute to.

[PHall]

That does sound like a problem. I guess you could try to use the fact that most of their personnel is volunteer already and they could save even more in training them by using CAP. Then you would ruffle a bunch of feathers in the volunteer sheriff community, though I don't imagine that is really that many feathers. Although isn't most of the areas to get lost in California regulated and patrolled by employee security already? I am not positive about that, but if so then there would be another problem with having CAP do GSAR in CAWG. I think the best thing you could do about that is let your people know that you are trying to fix the problem and console them a bit, and try to talk with the sheriffs and the police around you and prove to them that you are a valuable asset to them, it may even take a couple of evaluation missions to get them into your court. It will take time, effort, and some scratched backs.

Our response time is what kills us. The Sheriff teams can be rolling in an hour. We can have an airplane airborne in two hours, maybe, but a ground team takes several hours if at all. And compared to the Sheriff teams we bring nothing to the table that they don't have with the exception of electronic search. DF'ing is the one skill we have that they don't.

[wuzafuzz]

That does sound like a problem. I guess you could try to use the fact that most of their personnel is volunteer already and they could save even more in training them by using CAP. Then you would ruffle a bunch of feathers in the volunteer sheriff community, though I don't imagine that is really that many feathers. Although isn't most of the areas to get lost in California regulated and patrolled by employee security already? I am not positive about that, but if so then there would be another problem with having CAP do GSAR in CAWG. I think the best thing you could do about that is let your people know that you are trying to fix the problem and console them a bit, and try to talk with the sheriffs and the police around you and prove to them that you are a valuable asset to them, it may even take a couple of evaluation missions to get them into your court. It will take time, effort, and some scratched backs.

Our response time is what kills us. The Sheriff teams can be rolling in an hour. We can have an airplane airborne in two hours, maybe, but a ground team takes several hours if at all. And compared to the Sheriff teams we bring nothing to the table that they don't have with the exception of electronic search. DF'ing is the one skill we have that they don't.

Our GT response time is usually poor as compared to other teams.  If only because our request and alerting process is more involved than a sheriff's dept calling their own volunteers.  Add to that the sheriff's SAR folks I knew usually beat the pants off of CAP GT's skill-wise.  It's like asking a cop to call a security guard for backup instead of other cops.

As for electronic searches, I've seen plenty of non-CAP ground teams handle those and handle them well.  Back when I was an airport patrol guy (in CA) I DF'd ELT's before AFRCC even got CAP out of bed.  I know this because AFRCC usually called us first, before the sheriff or CAP.  We got the job done.  Personally I have far more finds outside CAP than in it.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy CAP, and am a GTM/UDF guy.  I'm merely pointing out that many other SAR teams simply blow us out of the water.  In some places we are the cats meow...but in some we are little league trying to play in the majors.

[Flying Pig]

The agency I work for is fully staffed with volunteers and full time Deputies on SAR.  CAP would never allow 90% of the training they do on an monthly basis.  Cross Country skiiing, Swift Water Rescue, rappelling, 2-3 day cross country hikes/land Nav with full gear, helo ops, you name it, they do it.
CAP has its place everywhere, in my area, its the air asset.  My agency wanted to put a Becker on our Dept plane.  I took the Lt. down to our G1000 and showed him and explained the CAP equipment and said why use our own plane and gas when we have this one at no cost to the county.  I told him I could always launch and assist the CAP plane but that the CAP plane and crew really the experts on that.  Of course, myself and our upcoming unit airplane pilot happen to be CAP pilots also.  Keep your friends close and your enemies closer
But really, the response and the skills is what kills us.  There is NOTHING we arent "allowed" to do to accomplish the mission.  Really about all a CAP GT can do is walk around quite honestly.  Our guys see a cliff and they need to get to the bottom, they rappel or call the helo for a ride.  They locate the victim or body, again, all self contained.  We STABO SAR members into locations and out of locations.  We long line bodies and victims. If the victim is still alive, we STABO out with a SAR member or Air Unit member hooked into the litter with the patient.  We provide Emergency Medical care and talk directly with EMS.  We have people who work full time everyday making sure everything always stays ready and organized.  CAP cant compete with that.  Really, where I am, a CAP GT would be in our way.  Im just speaking for the SAR units and counties where I am.  Others, Im sure CAP fits the need nicely and teh teams augment well.  A CAP GT would literally be about as useful as a boy scout troop in my AO.  Now the plane?  They love the plane. And with some integration, I could see CAP base staff being valuable too.

But again, thats what CAP does.  They fill the void and provide a service where there would otherwise be nothing, or augment what is alredy in place.

[Smithsonia]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now the plane?  They love the plane. And with some integration, I could see CAP base staff being valuable too.

Yes! Base staff, PIO services, Air Branch Director, Ground/Air Comm, Auxiliary and logistics Support in 4WDs. I worked this weekend as a Ground team member in Colorado. As I was gearing up - our CAP IC asked me to stay and liaison on the county staff. I did and wound up handling PIO, interagency Liaison and eventually family services (no chaplains were available on site either) The county field teams knew the county terrain, I didn't. I know press relations, they didn't. I think I was of good service and I know the IC staff were very appreciative.

Amazingly enough in this world as it is now configured - I think a forward deployed scout staff element ought to be in the works. At least that is the way that Colorado seems to be going where there are an infinite number of better prepared technical teams.

[Thom]

The agency I work for is fully staffed with volunteers and full time Deputies on SAR.  CAP would never allow 90% of the training they do on an monthly basis.
<snip>
A CAP GT would literally be about as useful as a boy scout troop in my AO.  Now the plane?  They love the plane. And with some integration, I could see CAP base staff being valuable too.

But again, thats what CAP does.  They fill the void and provide a service where there would otherwise be nothing, or augment what is alredy in place.

This is the prime question for building up your local CAP ES capabilities: What does your Customer (your Community) NEED?

If they already have copious Ground SAR resources, then fill the Aviation void. If they have plenty of Aviation assets, fill the Ground strength needs. If they have both covered, train for Disaster Response, such as assisting at distribution points and providing mission base support.

Just because we have a program to train for Ground SAR doesn't mean our particular local community NEEDS any more Ground SAR personnel.

All that said, I still think that the basics of GTM skills are beneficial to Cadets and SMs, since everyone should be able to read a map and get themselves "unlost" in the woods. Those are valuable life skills, whether you use them to directly aid your community or not. (Think Boy Scouts...)

So, find the gaps in your Communities preparedness and fill them. You'll also find it easier to squeeze in to the local Good Ole Boy SAR networks if you aren't squeezing someone else out...



Thom