Civil Air Patrol and knifes

[coloncapfl]

I want to add that is not whether the knife is legal to carry or not, I have a conceal weapon license in FL and I can carry knife concealed, the term is dangerous weapon what the regulations use. any blade over 3" long can be lethal. Again different states define as legal differently. CAP regulations states that any weapon declared as dangerous are not allowed during CAP activities, exceptions to this are in the ES regulations and manuals. When a regulation mentions a manual or guide for reference then is the regulation that is giving the mention guide the authority. Again the issue with the knifes is not a matter of legality in the regulation but a matter of definition. At least that's the way I see regulation, I could be wrong perhaps.

[Eclipse]

^ You are working from a flawed premise.

[coloncapfl]

What you mean? Please elaborate?

[ol'fido]

Eclipse,

The laws of each sate define that.

Usually they agree that any knife with a blade larger than 3 inches is a dangerous weapon.

See http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-dangerous-weapon.htm

And http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_weapon

And http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/deadly-weapon

Flyer

Knives, like firearms, are only as dangerous as the person wielding them. Any knife is dangerous in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. Most of the people I have seen carrying completely outrageous knives were more dangerous to themselves than anyone else. What I see far more than somebody showing up with the "survival samurai sword" is cadets and seniors showing up with super cheap pocket and kitchen(yes, I said kitchen) knives that are useless and like I said dangerous to the user. And yes, 99.99% of the time, you will not need anything more than a pocket knife for ground team, but when you need something more, you REALLY need it!

Most serious bushcrafters recommend a knife blade be no longer than the width of your hand at the palm and just below the knuckles or about 3 1/2" to 4". It should have a thickness to allow the back of the blade to be struck without damaging it(batoning), be high carbon steel, and full tang.

http://www.amazon.com/Esee-Knives-Desert-Micarta-Handles/dp/B004DTRERG

They also make this model with a blaze orange micarta handle.

[coloncapfl]

I would like to clarify. My original post was meant to previous posts that stated or questioned the extend of the Ground Team Task Guide guidelines in regards to knifes beyond ES events. Someone posted last year that the task guide could not be used in non ES activities. I was stating that there is a Reg for that purpose and nobody mentioned it on previous posts. When it comes to ES, I think is a matter of taste and personal safety. In the service I had a Buckmaster 184 (got stolen after I left the service) on top of my bayonet and that knife was a great tool. For CAP that would be out of regs for 2 reasons (Rambo style and over 6" blade) but for me was very handy during bivouac. I understand that for a 24 hr pack that might be overkill but for several days it could come handy. My favorite is the AF survival. I hope that I haven't confused anyone with my post

[Eclipse]

What you mean? Please elaborate?

Your interpretation that 900-3 automatically applies to knives of a given size based on a subjective definition of "dangerous weapon" is incorrect.
900-3 does not apply to knives.  It applies to firearms.

Further, the Ground & Urban Task Guide specifically authorizes knives with blades up to 6" in length.
It also authorizes machetes and hatchets as needed (Senior members only).

[coloncapfl]

With all due respect the regulation is specific about firearms, the regulation says "Other Dangerous Weapons"

"1. Firearms. Civil Air Patrol members will not carry, wear or use firearms while engaged in Civil Air Patrol activities. For purposes of this regulation a firearm is defined as any device which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive, air or any other gas.
a. The carrying of firearms prohibition is subject to the following exceptions:
(1) A member may carry firearms on his/her person when required to do so by law provided he/she has a written statement of proof of such requirement signed by the wing commander.
(2) Firearms may be carried in survival gear in CAP aircraft when required by law. When firearms are so authorized, they will not be removed from the survival gear unless an emergency situation exists.
(3) Firearms may be used under strict supervision as authorized in CAPR 52-16, Cadet Program Management.
b. CAP shall not own, lease, acquire, store or otherwise accept ownership of or title to any firearms.

2. Other Dangerous Weapons. Other than as provided for in paragraph 1 above, members engaged in CAP activities are prohibited from possessing or using weapons as defined by local state statutes as "dangerous.""

I think that the term dangerous weapons does not refer to firearms since it has already stated it above.
I believe that what I am trying to say is what it was said in a previous post

But if I am not in the school and not engaged in an AFAM or even a local emergency services mission, why should I reasonably believe that I am bound by a "task guide."?

I thought you were talking about ground ops outside of NESA. If you are talking about non-ES activities, then there is no reason to believe the task guide applies.

When it comes to ES Ground Team Operations I am perfectly clear that the 6" blade / 11" knife applies, but outside of ES I believe that 900-3 applies and that is what I thought was confusing about the comment. and nobody clarified that

[Майор Хаткевич]

I daily carry a four inch blade with a seatbelt cutter/glass breaker. Haven't used it yet outside of opening boxes at work but you never know.

[coloncapfl]

What I am trying to say is that outside of CAP ES related activities, there is no reason to be carrying a knife and I had the impression that the comment was trying to say that you are allowed to carry whatever as long as is legal, and is not. the only time you are allowed to carry a knife is during your duties in ES. That is how I see it. Again either I could be wrong or I might had explained myself wrong.

[Майор Хаткевич]

My blade is with me in uniform. It is not a weapon, it is a tool. Just like fire, clubs, bows, etc were when they were new tech.

[coloncapfl]

I understand, and I am not trying to make an argument about your personal choice. I was trying to make a point about the regulation and what is referring to. In the CAP Knowledgebase they refer to this Regulation when the same question was brought up.

http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/680/~/policy-on-knives-at-cap-meetings-and-during-cap-emergency-services-missions

I am not neither in favor nor against, I was just making an observation for purpose of clarification. Is not my intention to judge individual choices.

[ol'fido]

What I am trying to say is that outside of CAP ES related activities, there is no reason to be carrying a knife and I had the impression that the comment was trying to say that you are allowed to carry whatever as long as is legal, and is not. the only time you are allowed to carry a knife is during your duties in ES. That is how I see it. Again either I could be wrong or I might had explained myself wrong.

That is NOT how I see it. If your state or city prohibits the carrying of knives of a certain length, it doesn't matter whether you are in uniform or not or performing ES duties or not. Illegal is illegal. But that is only if they are prohibited for everyone. Fortunately for most of us, our local and state governments have not lost their friggin' minds(Since I live in the People's Republic of Illinois that may come back to bite me. ). I carry one about everywhere, in uniform and out, and doing ES or not.

[Eclipse]

That article references 900-3, but 900-3 has no comment in regards to knives.  It is a regulation about "firearms".

Further to this, the references flyer posted earlier, primarily discuss firearms, though "Kung Fu Stars" and blades are mentioned.

So, CAP specifically authorizes up to 6" knives for all members, and machetes for seniors, with the only restriction being
that if your state bans their carry, they are prohibited for CAP use within that state.

Anyone know of a state where a 6" knife is expressly prohibited?

My state, for example, does not prohibit the carry or use, but they do, however, consider you armed with a
"dangerous weapon" if you are carrying a variety of implements, as well as firearms.

There's an important difference between that something being banned.

[SarDragon]

I have carried one of these for about 35 years, and carry it everywhere with me except where specifically prohibited, like the court house, or airports.



Buck Prince

Blade Length:   2 1/2"(6.4 cm)
Length Closed:   3 3/8" (8.5 cm)

[coloncapfl]

I wonder what is the purpose to carry a knife to a weekly meeting.  If in fact CAP would say that carrying a knife outside of ESduties then why should we ignore a reg just bcause is legal in the law. Why not just keep it in your car. I see sometimes people ignores regs just because they think is not correct or proper. Regs are to be followed not just when is convenient. Again knowledgebase references the 900-3 when asked about knifes. Its up to the units if they would apply it or not. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. This is mine.

[davidsinn]

I wonder what is the purpose to carry a knife to a weekly meeting.  If in fact CAP would say that carrying a knife outside of ESduties then why should we ignore a reg just bcause is legal in the law. Why not just keep it in your car. I see sometimes people ignores regs just because they think is not correct or proper. Regs are to be followed not just when is convenient. Again knowledgebase references the 900-3 when asked about knifes. Its up to the units if they would apply it or not. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. This is mine.

Quite simply, a good knife is a frigging useful thing to have on you. I can't count the number of times I've had to use my Gerber pocket knife while in uniform.

[Devil Doc]

I wonder what is the purpose to carry a knife to a weekly meeting.  If in fact CAP would say that carrying a knife outside of ESduties then why should we ignore a reg just bcause is legal in the law. Why not just keep it in your car. I see sometimes people ignores regs just because they think is not correct or proper. Regs are to be followed not just when is convenient. Again knowledgebase references the 900-3 when asked about knifes. Its up to the units if they would apply it or not. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. This is mine.

Quite simply, a good knife is a frigging useful thing to have on you. I can't count the number of times I've had to use my Gerber pocket knife while in uniform.

I Always follow rule 9. Always carry a Knife.

[Al Sayre]

I thought that was rule #2...
#1. Never bring a knife to a gun fight.
#2. Always carry a knife.

[ol'fido]

Google "Gibb's Rules". Or go to www.gibbsrules.com. Rule #3.

[Devil Doc]

According to Gibbs rules, Number 9 is always carry a Knife.