Fall NEC meeting

[FW]

Here is the agenda for the meeting....

[jeders]

I like the idea of 5b, Aircrew Emergency Training, though I don't like the idea of having to pay for it myself. Also, I think if you're going to do something like this, the classroom portion should actually be in a classroom, not online. It's great if they put the material online, just so long as you have to actually sit down with someone and really learn it before getting credit.

[RiverAux]

Holy cow -- this looks like a very worthwhile agenda with a lot of good ideas on the table. 

CAP support to AF health services -- As many know I am a strong supporter of CAP and the AF looking for ways for CAP members to augment AF units, but even I don't see this as a high priority item for exploration.  Why don't we work out the kinks in just having regular CAP members augment AF units and hit some of the "low hanging fruit" in getting this idea off the ground.  Getting into all the licensing and other issues in the health services field is going to be way complicated. 

ARCHER -- Interesting that only 39 ARCHER missions were flown last year, most for USGS.  And the system is apparently falling apart.  Lets acknowledge that it was an interesting idea, but there apparently just isn't any major need for it, so lets drop it. 

I"ve been all for training non-pilot observers in emergency flying/landing procedures for years.  Lets get something official in the regs approving this as something that can be done.  I'd be willing to put my own money into it.  Don't see why they would limit it to one-time only though.  Interesting that CAP HQ and CAP-USAF apparently doesn't believe that CAP FAA instructor pilots are good enough to train non-pilot observers in landings:

Program directors not showing up for CIs.  Interesting that the proposal is apparently based on a situation where 10/18 directors didn't show up for their CI in some wing, but NHQ's data shows that this only occurred in 4% of interviews.  How about looking at the data, which was apparently available, before making a proposal folks?
Interesting tidbit from the emergency aircrew discussion -- apparently only about half of non-pilot observers are really active observers according to some sort of survey that was done. 

Insurance -- As someone with a high deductible plan, I hadn't really thought about the fact that CAP insurance wouldn't cover that since it is less than 8K.  I agree that this issue needs to be looked at. 

[DBlair]

I like the idea of a "Quality Cadet Unit Award" that can be earned by any unit fulfilling a certain set of criteria.

As a BSA Commissioner (and Eagle Scout), I've seen how "Quality Unit Awards" can drive a unit to reach a higher standard, and as such, I think this is a great idea. Also, it is nice to have a unit award with a set criteria as the current Squadron of Merit/Distinction awards seem to lack in that area.

[JC004]

What are they doing with USGS?  Disaster-type stuff like something related to earthquakes?  Trying to find gold to fund more ARCHER systems?

[Pylon]

Holy cow -- this looks like a very worthwhile agenda with a lot of good ideas on the table. 

+100!   Wow.  A substantive agenda, with issues concerning the efficient management of CAP and its future!   :clap:

[bosshawk]

Have you ever heard of committees?  That is likely where most of those items will be referred, never to be seen again.

I agree, there are a good number of items which, if enacted, would greatly improve CAP.

Just think, no uniform items.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I am REAL happy to see the issue of non-pilot observers being discussed.  I proposed within our group to give non-pilot observers the pinch-hitter course followed by some flight time and a landing or two with an IP, which could have been a part of an A-mission profile.  I was (pun intended) shot down.  The "Brains" of the outfit pointed out that 60-1 prohibits "Primary flight instruction" for SM's in CAP aircraft.

I said that unless the observer logged it as instruction, it wasn't instruction, but nobody wanted to listen to reason.

[DBlair]

I am REAL happy to see the issue of non-pilot observers being discussed.  I proposed within our group to give non-pilot observers the pinch-hitter course followed by some flight time and a landing or two with an IP, which could have been a part of an A-mission profile.  I was (pun intended) shot down.  The "Brains" of the outfit pointed out that 60-1 prohibits "Primary flight instruction" for SM's in CAP aircraft.

I said that unless the observer logged it as instruction, it wasn't instruction, but nobody wanted to listen to reason.

I like your idea. It would certainly add to the idea of safety having an Observer who at least knows the basics.

[tsrup]

I am REAL happy to see the issue of non-pilot observers being discussed.  I proposed within our group to give non-pilot observers the pinch-hitter course followed by some flight time and a landing or two with an IP, which could have been a part of an A-mission profile.  I was (pun intended) shot down.  The "Brains" of the outfit pointed out that 60-1 prohibits "Primary flight instruction" for SM's in CAP aircraft.

I said that unless the observer logged it as instruction, it wasn't instruction, but nobody wanted to listen to reason.

60-1 only prohibits SM's from primary flight instruction in their first year of membership, otherwise it just requires wing commander approval.

I really don't see why it takes a NEC agenda item for an interested Observer to go up and learn a few landings..

edit: (durr: student pilots need student pilot certificates and medical, and observer does not)
the proposed policy makes sense after omitting that brain fart.

[RiverAux]

Because it can be considered to be in a "gray area" and not many Wing Commanders are going to go put themselves out on a limb to approve it under the current regulation.  The fact that very few, if any, have done so indicates their reluctance. 

[indygreg]

As a Non-Pilot Scanner, soon to be Observer, I would be all over this course.  I'd even be willing to pony up some cash for it.  An incapacitated pilot has always been a fear in the back of my mind.  I actually talked to the instructor at the local airport about buying some time and learning what to do in an emergency.  He said that due to liability concerns, he would not even consider it.

[Fubar]

60-1 only prohibits SM's from primary flight instruction in their first year of membership, otherwise it just requires wing commander approval.

To clarify, if you already hold a private pilot's license you can receive permission to use CAP aircraft for instruction after the first year. If you're starting from scratch and have no prior flight training, it's unlikely a CAP aircraft can be used for instruction due to the requirement that the CAP member be more than two hours from the closest flight school.

c. CAP senior members that are not current SAR/DR mission pilots must obtain permission to receive flight instruction in CAP airplanes toward FAA certificates or ratings as follows:
(1)   Senior members who hold a Private Pilot Airplane Certificate or higher and have been an active CAP member for at least 1 year – Wing commander written permission.
(2)   All other senior members – Written permission from the wing commander, region commander and the CAP Executive Director is required and may be granted provided the members lives more than two hours driving time from a commercial training facility.

[exFlight Officer]

As a Non-Pilot Scanner, soon to be Observer, I would be all over this course.  I'd even be willing to pony up some cash for it.  An incapacitated pilot has always been a fear in the back of my mind.  I actually talked to the instructor at the local airport about buying some time and learning what to do in an emergency.  He said that due to liability concerns, he would not even consider it.

:clap: :clap:

+ 1 about the course!


Will there be a live stream like the National Conference ?

[PHall]

And not one uniform item on the agenda. That's almost a first! :clap:

[bosshawk]

Someone must have made an error: we can't have a NEC without a uniform item.

[Slim]

And not one uniform item on the agenda. That's almost a first! :clap:

There weren't any on the agenda for the meeting when they killed the CSU, either.

Just sayin'.

[JohnKachenmeister]

60-1 only prohibits SM's from primary flight instruction in their first year of membership, otherwise it just requires wing commander approval.

To clarify, if you already hold a private pilot's license you can receive permission to use CAP aircraft for instruction after the first year. If you're starting from scratch and have no prior flight training, it's unlikely a CAP aircraft can be used for instruction due to the requirement that the CAP member be more than two hours from the closest flight school.

c. CAP senior members that are not current SAR/DR mission pilots must obtain permission to receive flight instruction in CAP airplanes toward FAA certificates or ratings as follows:
(1)   Senior members who hold a Private Pilot Airplane Certificate or higher and have been an active CAP member for at least 1 year – Wing commander written permission.
(2)   All other senior members – Written permission from the wing commander, region commander and the CAP Executive Director is required and may be granted provided the members lives more than two hours driving time from a commercial training facility.

And... if the observer has a private pilot certificate, the training is superfluous.

[a2capt]

And not one uniform item on the agenda. That's almost a first! :clap:

..and the meeting has not happened yet, the agenda is not final until the meeting is over with, like a tail dragger, you're not done flying until the thing is chained down again.